Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello Everyone! I just bought a Dumeril yesterday at the Atlanta show to go along with my many pythons! Yeterday he was very sweet while I was holding him and walking around the show and also vey sweet when I took him out of his new terranium last night. Then today I went to go pick him up and he was very aggressive. I read the earlier post about putting one of my old shirts in there, but smell doesn't seem to be the issue, its the fact of touching him in general seemed to be what he didn't like. What can i do? Is it just because its still a new palce? Thanks for your help, I'm sure I'll have more questions!

It is probably due to the new surroundings. Dumerils can be finicky when brought into a new home. I'd recommend no handling for atleast the first week, let him settle in, and then worry about him feeding well for you in his new set up. After he is content and feeding well, then I'd start to handle him. Also, check your cage temps. too be sure they're not too hot as Dumerils can get a little feisty if too warm. Good luck and congrats on your new dumerils. Take care

Paul

Sounds good. I'm thinking it may be a little too hot in there at times. What is the highest you would go on the temp. onn the warm side of the tank?

It depends on the size of cage, but generally I don't go above 88 degrees with my Dumerils. In the 4' cages if I have 90, I don't mind as there's plenty of room to regulate. Generally when I hit my Dumerils with the temp gun, they're sitting around 84-86 degrees. Has he settled down at all? Just have to remember to be patient with young Dumerils, because sometimes they WILL test your patience-LOL! Keep us posted. Take care

Paul

He hasn't really gotten a whole lot better so i decide dto leave him alone until he eats and gets use to his surroundings. I guess there is my next issue, I will post this as a new message topic as well: he hasn't eaten since I got him and I'm afraid of something being wrong. The people i got him from at the reptile show assured me he eats live food. I've tried to feed him everything from fuzzies to small adult mice and he'll strike at the hoppers and small adults, but won't eat them and he wants nothing to do with the fuzzies. The temps seem correct but perhaps there is something about Dumerils that i jsut don't know...is this common for them to not eat? I mean, if he wasn't hungry, why would he still strike at it? If i've tried every size i know of, what should be my next step?

The people you bought him from assured you that he was eating "live food"? Did they specify what live food?

Many snakes (of any specie) will strike out of fear at a food item if they don't recognize it as food - or are just stressed out.

I actually read that Dumeril's Boas seem to prefer lizards as neonates, and though most of us don't have a surplus of small lizards, apparently any lizard can be used to scent a mouse (rub the mouse on the lizard, then offer the mouse to the Dumeril) and that can get them started. I would NOT suggest feeding lizards to a picky Dum.

The way you are offering food can have a lot to do with all of this. Are you putting it in the cage with him, with the lights on full?

~Rebecca
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1.1 Ball Pythons (1.0 '05 Ghost, 0.1 '03 Normal)
0.1 Dumeril's Boa
0.2 American Pit Bull Terriers (40 lb darling lap dogs)

The poeple I got him from did not spesify what live food it was, but i'm going to try to call and find out. I"m wondering if perhaps his temps are off, its about 80 on the cool side and 90 on the warm side. His tank may even be too big (20 gal.). And I have tried feeding him both in his tank with a red light and in a shoe box with no light. I've left a fuzzie in there over night (both in shoe box and in tank) and he wasn't interested. I've been told that if he looks healthy he's fine, but i'm not sure what an unhealthy snake would look like. I may try the lizard thing. I know they have feeder lizards at our pet store. Why is it bad to fee dthem lizards? I know these are a lot of questions to answer, but I just need to know whats best for him!

I'd lose the 20 gal. for now and keep him solely in the shoebox. Let him settle in for a few days before trying to feed. Take care

Paul

My gut feeling about feeding lizards to boas, particularly "feeder lizards" is that they would very likely carry diseases and parasites that could harm your Dumeril's Boa. I don't know your individual pet store, so I can't say that they definitely have bad lizards or anything. What I can say definitively is that unlike rodents, lizards are reptiles, and therefore much more similar to your boa - any disease that a rodent may harbor would probably not do anything to your boa, however, any disease that a lizard would carry probably could do some nasty things to your boa.

I would think that if you talked to the staff at the pet store, you could probably rub a mouse on a lizard without having to buy anything. If not, if you buy only one little lizard, you could keep it alive and use it to scent multiple rodents... though there are many lizards I would really love to keep but I think lizards in general are too needy for my tastes.

Another thing that does really matter, as I kind of mentioned before, is how the food is presented. A lot of people who keep snakes disagree with me on this, and I have a feeling that even more people in this forum will disagree here, but I use what I call "feeding bins" for all of my snakes. The biggest argument against this is that to use a feeding bin, you have to move (possibly stress) an animal that is not feeding (probably already stressed) to a new container to try to get it to relax enough to feed. This is true, and it can't work 100% of the time for EVERYONE... but it does work very well for me.

I use plastic totes that I buy cheap; tupperware/rubbermaid types with locking lids. For my little ones (currently my Dum fits this category) I have a 19qt bin that has a small floor space, and a proportionately tall heighth. I don't cut air holes because I don't leave the animals in the bins long enough to have to worry about air supply, but if you were to decide that you're not comfortable doing that, use a drill and drill from the inside to the outside, to reduce any burrs that a snake could hurt itself on.

What I have done in the past for more reluctant feeders is to place the food item in the bin first, so after I place the snake in the bin, I don't disturb it again. I do this when the prey item is either pre-killed/thawed, or alive but young enough that it cannot hurt the snake (rodents that don't have their eyes open yet). Obviously, when handling the snake, make the transition between the cage and the bin as short and stress-free as possible, (and though it sounds hypocritical) use slow movements, again so you don't stress the snake. Gently place the snake in the bin, and close and lock the lid. Then cover the bin with a blanket or beach towel, so that it is dark, and keep any loud and boisterous friends, spouses, kids, dogs, etc. out of the room if at all feasible. Set a timer for 30 minutes and leave the room yourself. After 30 minutes, tiptoe to the bin and slowly peek under a corner of the towel and see if there is any progress.

A lot of poor feeders are stressed out by a live prey item, and will huddle at the opposite end of the bin. This is where using a pre-killed prey item is best, and the small floor space of the bin comes in handy. Sometimes snakes that are not neccesarily bad feeders, but are easily stressed out by their captive situation (whatever the reason), will leave the area that you have left the prey in, especially when they are fed in a large enclosure. This is because YOU are bigger and higher on the food chain. Seen through the eyes of your stressed out captive, maybe you've left "bait," but whatever your motivation, you are big and you were just over there, so that is the last place your snake wants to be. If the enclosure is large enough, the snake will just completely avoid that area, and not realize that there is food over there. So goes my little theory anyhow. The smaller floor space of the feeding bin is key - this way it is harder for the snake to miss the fact that there is a prey item in the box with it. This goes along with the shoebox theory that has already been suggested in this thread.

Also, if you are presenting the prey with forceps or anything, a lot of people move too fast (scary!), or too directly toward the snake's head (more scary!). If you notice when you handle a snake (hopefully NOT the one that is being reluctant to feed), even snakes that are not head shy don't like any object to directly "confront" their face. You approach snakes' heads from slightly below or behind, so as not to be scary. Similarly, when presenting prey, anything presented straight-on will be received as a hostile confrontation; instead, I have found that presenting a prey item to just one side of a snake's head works better. Also, if your snake begins to show interest and then falters, slowly back the prey away. Oddly enough, this tends to spark more interest.

I know this got really long, and I apologize, but these are some general tips that I have used in the past with many different species of snakes. I hope this helps.

~Rebecca
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1.1 Ball Pythons (1.0 '05 Ghost, 0.1 '03 Normal)
0.1 Dumeril's Boa '04
0.2 American Pit Bull Terriers (40 lb darling lap dogs)