Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Okay, dont take this as a "I want to make it big in the ball industry" or any of those other highly debated questions... This is just a question that doesn't seem to make sense to me. I totally understand why recessive morph females cost more, you can only have as many clutches as you do females. But in the case of dom morphs you could have one, lets say pastale, male and breed him to as many normal females as he can. Therefor, as far as I understand, making him the more "valuable" (and I say valuable as far as the trade of snakes go, in my eyes, all snakes are equally valuable). I guess it just seems to me, that if one were to purchase a pastale, it would be a male, as you would be able to produce more pastales, or any other dom. morph, faster. Would females be more valuable due to the demand for supers or Co-Doms? Anyways, this question has been eating me up, thanks everyone in advanced...

Johnny
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3.2.1 Normal BPs
"And on the 8th day, God created the Marines"

I've been asking this question for a while...even with the recessive genes. I purchased a pastel male recently...and will hve 2 or 3 females ready for him next season. So, to have gotten a female that I could only breed 1 male to didn't make sense. the only way it makes sense, is in the way you need the female for the super pastel...but all you have to do is wait an extra 2-3 yrs and save $1500. But even with recessive genes...buy a male nice and cheap, breed it to 2 or 3 normal females, keep the nicest looking female hets, and breed them back to daddy...again, you saved a ton of $, and produced more quicker. Maybe it's just us....
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Cycling: Trio Black Rat Snakes

Together: Poss Het Axanthic male Ball x Normal-no mating witnessed yet.

Chris LaViola
CMLReptiles
Website under construction
CMLReptiles@aol.com

that is a great scenario if the prices didn't drop each year. Those 1-3 years that you waited to prove out your 50% het girls or grow up your 100% het's or female pastels just cost you some big bucks. While i myself plan on going the long route on some of the morphs that i want to get into, the morphs that I truly love and want to produce sooner I'm going to buy the females that will get me there 1-3 years ahead of people buying just the males. for example. My first goal is to produce at least 10-15 pieds in 5 years. To do this I bought 2 het males last year and 3 100% het females this year. Both of my males are locking up to normal females this year. I designated 3 for each male. So if i can get 4 clutches of 6 eggs from them that will on average give me 3 50% het's from each clutch so let's say 12 females. In the mean time I'm feeding my het girls and 1 of those is already up to 700 gm and should go for me next year. If I produce a male pied I can put him with all 12 of the 50%'s and the other 2 100%'s the following year. I stand a good chance to prove out 3-6 of those 12 50%'s and will get pieds from both the 100% females. So in 2 yrs I produce my first pied, guarenteed and in 3-4 yrs I have the possibility to produce upwards of 20. The reason it's important to have a homozygous male to prove out your 50%'s is you know almost undoubtably if it's a het girl or normal where as with 2 het's you may just miss the odds. Now if price drops $500 a year, being one year ahead adds up to almost $10,000. That's worth the extra 1500 to start off with, don't you think.
Josh Hutto........JKReptiles
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2.3 het pied (RDR, alan bosch x 2, BHB x 2)
1.1 het albino (ben siegel, gulf coast)
1.2 het citrus ghost(gulf coast line)
1.0 citrus ghost (gulf coast line)
0.1 graz pastel female
1.6 05 normal bp's
0.6 04 normal bp's
2.5 adult normal bp's (some need breeding to see if norm)
4 various corns
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa (alan bosch)
1.0 american pit bull terrior
1.1 taco dogs (ankle biters)
1.0 grey cat
1.1 bearded dragons

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrior as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

Females give you supers. Male pastel x normal = pastels and normals, while male pastel x female pastel = super pastels, pastels, and normals.

What I don't get is why female pieds cost less than male pieds...
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Ryan Farris

I think Peter Kahl originally proved the pied line with a female pied and Tracy Barker reports producing a pied X pied clutch so we know female pieds can breed but the price ratio does make you wonder if they tend not to make the best/fastest breeders.

But yes, with Co-dom mutations the females limit your production of homozygous/super so that is why they tend to be a more expensive. However look at spider where the females are cheaper. Maybe (no one is saying for sure) this is an indication that there isn't a desired super that female spiders are in demand to produce. It will be interesting if we ever do get a proven completely dominant morph (pinstripe?) to see what price ratio shakes out for the genders.

I completely agree with you 100%. The next year or 2 will be interesting to see where the market will go with Dom and co-dom morphs. I think after everything has settled down, simple recessive will be where the money is... But if anyone is in it for the money, then they will be blown out quickly with the late night cage cleaning, water bowls at midnight, calling in sick to their "regular job" to go get feeder rats, etc. I think the passion for the animals will weed out the money hungry people over the next couple of years. Anyways, back to your post, I agree, the doms and co-doms will set the presidence over the next few years. Just my $.02.

Jason Smith

I got an opinion on that one too

Pieds are ALWAYS going to be a hot item.So,many people are still interested in hatching their own het females and starting a colony.(Or selling hets to those that cannot afford a homozygous male.)

Which is also why they came down so fast.Possible hets "work".Alot of 50% het holdback females have already produced homozygous animals for numerous people.A significant enough number were produced in this way to have affected the market.(Let alone the people that started with poss/het males and normal females)
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Charles Glaspie

Tanstaafl:
"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch".
An acronym created by my favorite author Robert A. Heinlein.

"What I don't get is why female pieds cost less than male pieds..."

Because it's recessive. People will buy, let's say, a male pied and breed to multiple normal females and produce many hets or they can breed to many het females and produce more pieds and het pieds. With a female pied, you can only produce one clutch for the year... that's why the recessive male is more... that is until that recessive morph becomes too abundant.

Eric

I would guess, that with a female pied you know you can garantee pieds produced. Although maybe it takes alot longer for the female pied to mature for breeding...maybe 3 years....While the male can breed at a year....then female hets are higher priced......seems to balance out.

Andy

Yep..it's the super.(...and the year you will save in hatching your own girls to get a super.)

There are other reasons.All of them cover the same basic reason...you gotta have egg layers.(Normals don't throw supers or bumblebees etc etc)

Some people want a 1.3 pastel/other co-dom group.(ie To make more supers,or use one for designers,and two for supers etc)

Some people only want to make designers...and not mass produce a single trait.To them,pastel/cinny pastel and other codom females are the only females in their colony.(Must be nice ehh. lol)

There are other reasons,but they escape me atm...
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Charles Glaspie

Tanstaafl:
"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch".
An acronym created by my favorite author Robert A. Heinlein.

Thanks everyone,
I guess I wasn't looking at it very hard from the Co-Dom persepective.

~Johnny