Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Can anyone share info on how this thing works...i.e. a male breeder being "loaned" out to the owner of the female breeder? I mean what are the usual arrangements....does the owner of the male breeder pick one of the offsprings or do they split the offsprings or is it money exchange? Which snake is shipped to to whose location...I just want to get some advice on this subject from you guys.

Thanks a lot,
-----
RAY

Ray,
Very good question.It really depends on the male in question and the people involved.This can be a very touchy subject and you are very likely going to get several different answers.This is not a cut and dry or black and white answer but I always take every breeding loan on a individule basis.
You need to remember that if you ship off your male that you can't use him for other females.If that other female is sent to you than your male can be used to service that female and other females that you may want to breed.
Also I look at the value of said animal vs.the value of the animal that is going to be bred against it.
I also always try to picture the care and such as you don't always know what its like at the other end.You can only go by hunch sometimes and if it feels good it probably is.
If she/he has been around and has a good rep then there is a reason for that.
As far as the splitting goes that is usually up to the two partys to decide.It is usually right down the middle unless it is very lopsided to begin with.
If I had a snow male and you didn't but had a dbl-het for snow female and sent it to me for a lone for example.I bred them here and produced about 7 babies and get one snow I would expect to keep that snow and then we would split up the rest accordingly.I would probably give you the better of the rest of the clutch but thats what I was reffering to by the value part of the lone.
It gets kinda hard sometimes and feelings can get hurt also because you never know exactly whats comeing out of the clutch.
If its something like albino x albino its pretty easy but when its multi genes its pretty messy.
Its better to talk it out ahead of time and kinda have a idea before they hatch and then when they do you aren't blind sided when you get the news and you can't get what you want.Just remember that its always better than what you would have produced.
I have seen alot of loans work and alot of them fail.I have lost a couple friends over them and made a couple over them so I guess its a wash in the end.

Shannon

parasite or whatever? I guess you would just quarantine all over again but....Oh well, I worry too much...

a lot of info and insights you gave here and appreciate you touching on the subject matter. BobS (in another thread) mentioned about parasite risks but I guess from what you mentioned earlier, trust and comfort level play a real big role in making it work.

Thanks again to both of you!

Ray

-----
RAY

.
-----
Paul Weaver
Carolina Herps

and out of focus but she's a knock out and always hungry. I'll try to get better pics next time. I suspect that she'll grow very rapidly since she's shedding every 25-28 days.

Thanks !
-----
RAY

who did you get her from (if you don't mind me asking)...
-----
Paul Weaver
Carolina Herps

Terry Dunham.

Thanks again,
-----
RAY

Good choice...

Thanks
Nevo

Thanks Nevo, what's going on with you? email me directly.

Later...
-----
RAY

It's whatever the two parties are both happy with. Could be anything.

Most of my breeder loans work out this way:
1) The division of babies reflects the relative value of the respective parents: If one person contributes a snow male and the other contributes a normal female to produce some double het babies, the person contributing the snow would get the larger portion of the offspring.
2) Neither party assumes liability: things can and do go wrong when working with living things: you either place your animal with someone you trust enough to exercise reasonable judgement and care, or you shouldn't put it with them.
3) if the two animals are of roughly equal value the animals would be split 50-50.
4) the two parties have to decide who gets first choice, who gets second, etc. Sometimes that decision includes "rules" by which one person gets the first of each genotype produced, the other the second, and so on, or one person might get the first of one genotype, the other person gets the first choice of a different genotype. It's all up to the parties.
5) i recommend ALWAYS putting the agreement in writing, even if you are making the agreement with your best or most trusted friend. Terms get forgotten; proposals get misunderstood. Having it in writing preserves friendships.
6) As for who ships what to whom, that's just to be negotiated depending on the circumstances. Again, if people are making equal contributions, shippign costs could be split. But maybe the loan's being done only at the desire of one of the parties--they NEED the other animal, whereas the other party doesn't NEED to put his/her animal on loan; in that case, maybe the person who needs the loan--whether loaning or borrowing--might appropriately pay the cost of getting the animal to its desired residence.
7) it's worth remembering that the person caring for the loaned snake, managing the breeding process, and incubating the eggs, is making a significant contribution though one without an easily set financial contribution. So if all else is equal, the person caring for the animal might get first choice just on the basis that he/she is going to that extra effort.

I don't know whether these are the way most people do it or not. I know i've done it this way over the years with a number of people.

peace
terry

>>Can anyone share info on how this thing works...i.e. a male breeder being "loaned" out to the owner of the female breeder? I mean what are the usual arrangements....does the owner of the male breeder pick one of the offsprings or do they split the offsprings or is it money exchange? Which snake is shipped to to whose location...I just want to get some advice on this subject from you guys.
>>
>>Thanks a lot,
>>-----
>>RAY