Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Welcome to kingsnake.com's message board system. Here you may share and discuss information with others about your favorite reptile and amphibian related topics such as care and feeding, caging requirements, permits and licenses, and more. Launched in 1997, the kingsnake.com message board system is one of the oldest and largest systems on the internet.

Click for 65% off Shipping with Reptiles 2 You
Click for 65% off Shipping with Reptiles 2 You

Ornate Uro answers for Debb

robyn@ProExotics Dec 05, 2005 05:34 PM

sorry for the delay : )

some answers for you:

-our original groups were 1.3 and 1.4's, 5 of them. that went down to three groups of 1.2 and 1.3's, and will probably end up at two groups of 1.2 and 1.3.

having too many groups means less time per group, and the goal is really to have two or three very solid groups, well socialized and breeding. as with our monitor breeding strategies, we start with a larger group of animals, find the male:female ratio that works, and then sell extra animals. we sold all of the surplus animals as juvies or young adults. (if i had to suggest a ratio to someone starting new groups, i would suggest 1.1 or 1.2)

-losses: from our original group of babies, we lost one animal as a baby, one as a young adult, and one adult female eggbound. 3 out of perhaps 28 babies (i don't remember the exact total we started with). the eggbound female was in a bit different setup, with much cooler ambient and soil temps, i believe that was a contributing factor, we are not running that setup anymore, the animals just didn't thrive like our other groups.

-groupings: again, like our monitor strategy, we start the breeding groups together as babies, so that they socialize and grow as a group. they are together year round, and there is no brumation or significant temperature drop. the producing female laid at a year and a half of age.

-aggression: early socialization and establishing groups helps to address aggression. we have had very little, but we have seen some when breaking apart one of the extra groups, and pulling a "keeper" female into an established group. somebody in the group was a little fiesty, but they got over it pretty quickly.

-illness: haven't seen any, aside from the dead female with eggs. no RI, no cuts or bruises, no infections, the groups have been very healthy. oh, and regarding the soil, the higher humidity, etc, certainly no tail rot, scale rot, or other "classic high humidity" Uro concerns.

-hatching: we had 13 babies total hatch out in our first clutch. that seems to be a good sized first clutch. we have not located the eggs (hatched in the 10 ft. circular trough, deep in the soil), but we have not looked for them either. i am anxious to see if the female(s) will go again this year. i would love to have 8 or 9 clutches over the next few years, and then EVENTUALLY dig up the cage and see about egg distribution, fertility, temps, location, repeated choices, etc. In the meantime, it will remain somewhat a mystery : )

-2nd hatch: nothing yet from a different female that went down 6 weeks or so after the first (in a different cage), and time is ticking. it was 200 days to hatch for the first clutch, which is incredibly long, and all that means is that i have NO IDEA what the next hatch time would be, it is complete speculation : )

the goal is definitely to repeat now, and develop a pattern and some predictability, to learn from our experience. the goal is NOT to get eggs and incubate artificially for a 60 day hatch, i KNOW that can be done : )

i am excited about the "breeding and hatching Uros in the cage" approach, i would love to do it with other lizards as well (we have done it with colubrids, same soil, buried eggs, successful, but slightly tardy, hatch dates).

thanks for the interest, sorry again i haven't posted frequently, it has been very busy, but i do read the forum every day : )

your feedback (and any other) on these issues is appreciated!
-----
robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

Replies (2)

debb_luvs_uros Dec 05, 2005 07:04 PM

Thanks for taking the time to provide all of this information Robyn. Very interesting. I was most impressed with hearing that those that made it out of the egg after that length of time, all survived and are thriving a month later.

If you might humor me with a clarification....

You mentioned that you started out with more groups than you ended up with and some of the original groups had a higher female to male ratio. You stated that having less group meant more time with each group which I fully understand. The part I need clarification on is what you meant by you had to find the male:female ratio that worked best. If there was no outward aggression in these groups until splitting, what was the determining factor for decreasing the number of females in the established groups? I could assume that you were not seeing breeding behavior and felt that reducing the number of females might help or that you were not impressed with the quality of specific females and decided to eliminate those females from your stock but that would be total speculation on my part so I thought I would ask.

Again, thanks for taking the time to detail all of this.

robyn@ProExotics Dec 06, 2005 02:37 PM

it factors in both aspects that you mentioned. you pull out females that are perhaps less than spectacular, you want to have the best possible group and combo, but you also pull back numbers to make the best socialized group.

aggression is not the only outward sign of less than ideal socialization. i don't know if i can really capture it in text, but it is from our experience with breeding monitors.

1.4 or 1.5 may get along "just fine" but you still have competition for hide spots, feeding times, basking times, etc.

over the years, we have found that lizards are better setup in smaller groups, 1.1 or 1.2.

i thought perhaps the Uros could be done in larger groups, so that is where we started, but over time, you "read" the socialization, and you see the male make preference to just one or two females, and the decision is really made by the animals.

our cages are "large" at 10 ft in diameter, but that is only relative to captive cages. relative to the wild, the great outdoors, i suppose the 10 ft cage is not much different from a 2 ft cage. if you setup 1.5 Uros on 2 acres worth of land, i bet it would work well, not so much stepping on toes.

as Frank Retes likes to observe, an "arboreal cage" is seldom possible in a captive setting, as a true "arboreal" cage would need to be 20 or 30 feet tall, not 3 : )
-----
robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

Site Tools