Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've been looking at Dr.Alan Francis' garters (http://www.gartersnake.co.uk/) and he has done some breeding between the two subspecies. I really love the look of the offspring; it's probably the closest I'd ever get to owning an actual S.F. I believe this hybrid would be legal in the U.S, because it would no longer be an actual protected subspecies (I'd definitely have to keep exact records/paperwork). And with some selective breeding, the hybrid could potentially resemble the real S.F. garter even more. Is anyone on this forum aware of the legalities of such a situation? I'm asking here b/c I know the people on this forum will tell me if my head is in the clouds.
S.F Garter x CA Red-Sided

Not being either a lawyer or an employee of the Fish & Wildlife Service, I can't give a definitive answer. However, I believe they have the power to regulate creatures that are similar to protected types. The rationale is that without that power, a protected animal could evade regulation by being falsely given the identity of an unprotected lookalike. So my opinion is that the cross would not be any more legal than the SF garter.

Paul Hollander

Just wait 10 years. By then hopefully San Francisco Garters will be off of the protected species list.
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Mike
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
www.freewebs.com/mikesnake
www.freewebs.com/badyear2005

It would probably be best if you called the US. Fish and Wildlife service.

That way you have a definate answer.
I don't understand why herpetoculturists haven't petitioned the
USFS for the ability to keep SF garters much like people are able
to keep and breed the protected eastern Indigo snake with a federal
permit. As far as I am aware, the SF. garter has all the traits
that made the USFS agree with private keeping and breeding.
(ie. easily breedable, captive bred stock in collections already,
easy to keep,etc.)

>>I've been looking at Dr.Alan Francis' garters (http://www.gartersnake.co.uk/) and he has done some breeding between the two subspecies. I really love the look of the offspring; it's probably the closest I'd ever get to owning an actual S.F. I believe this hybrid would be legal in the U.S, because it would no longer be an actual protected subspecies (I'd definitely have to keep exact records/paperwork). And with some selective breeding, the hybrid could potentially resemble the real S.F. garter even more. Is anyone on this forum aware of the legalities of such a situation? I'm asking here b/c I know the people on this forum will tell me if my head is in the clouds.
>>S.F Garter x CA Red-Sided

I wasn't aware that herpetoculturists had petitioned the USFS for the right to keep Indigos. If they did so (apparently successfully), that does raise some interesting possibilities with the S.F. garter. My understanding is that we cannot obtain a simple federal permit to keep SF garters because they are classified as an endangered species. The Indigo is classified as a threatened species instead, which is why the USFS is less "protective" (I use this term with frusteration because they are a major cause of the extinction risk facing the S.F.G) of it.

>>>I don't understand why herpetoculturists haven't petitioned the
USFS for the ability to keep SF garters much like people are able
to keep and breed the protected eastern Indigo snake with a federal
permit. As far as I am aware, the SF. garter has all the traits
that made the USFS agree with private keeping and breeding.
(ie. easily breedable, captive bred stock in collections already,
easy to keep,etc.)

Take a look at the last two posts; I'm curious about the differences