Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Has anyone bred a ball python to a carpet or dwarf retic? This would yeild even more new exciting morphs. Could you imagine the money you would make, what would they be worth?

I personally do not think hybrids are all that great, but crossing those animals would deface both species. Just my opinion.

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Charles Glaspie

Tanstaafl:
"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch".
An acronym created by my favorite author Robert A. Heinlein.

np
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0.1 CB '05 Ball Python
Chlorhexidine

I read an article years ago and I wish I could find it today... The article basically said that "naturally occuring" hybrids were the only "safe" and "undisturbing" hybrids mother nature would allow. I couldn't agree more. The idea of crossing a Ball Python to a Carpet or Retic is just horrifying. Being that Balls are African and Carpets are Australian and Retics are Indonesian, it's just Mother Natures way of saying "WE DON"T BELONG TOGETHER". The Borneo Bateater (burmese x retic) is a naturally occuring hybrid. The "superball" (Ball x Blood) is not. The Ball x Angolan is a naturally occuring hybrid as well. I personally hope that all of the breeders out there that are trying "unnatural" hybrids fail miserably with disasterous consequences. Let's just cross a Great Dane with a Chihuahua?! Wouldn't that be awesome?! Or how about a Human with a Baboon?! Maybe I'm a purist, maybe I'm just and axxhole. The more hybrids we create the harder it will become to maintain the integrity of Mother Nature and the industry. My opinion is that more people should breed snakes because they love them and want to educate more people about them, not to just get rich from them. This is just my opinion and thanks for letting me rant,
Chip

A mountain range seperates burms and retics in Southern Asia. The first Bateaters (and every one since) were produced in captivity and there have not been any wild bateaters imported to my knowledge. I can't say anything about the angolan x balls because I'm not familiar with thier ranges exactly, Maybe Kevin or someone more in depth can say if they do occur in the wild or not.

I'm not trying to get into this debate too far as I feel a bit differently about hybrids but I did feel the need to clear up the bateater part

You should do more research. Bateaters ARE a naturally occuring hybrid. Tom Crutchfield imported the first in the late 80's and early 90's.

The fact that any of these snakes can interbreed and have a viable offspring means that they are divergent from a very common progenitor. Breed a baboon to a human and you wouldn't even get fertilization. Breed a tiny dog to a large dog and you will get a viable cross because every dog variety is a different race of the same species Canis familiaris.

Species may be separated by mountains now, but they've been on earth for hundreds of millions of years. The fact that retics and burmese (or whatever) can interbreed means that they diverged from one species after their population was separated by developing natural boundaries. It's called divergent evolution.

Now, try to breed snake species that were never related and only came to be similar by convergent evolution and you won't even get a pregnancy.

Interbreeding is a way of maintaining genetic diversity. Overspecialized animals go extinct in the end.

So before you condemn hybrids remember that all mother nature "intends" is that life continues by whatever means necessary and human intervention is a small footnote in the history of organismal development.

I've done my homework sparky...read /

Posted by Dave Barker on August 13, 1999 at 09:36:20:

In Reply to: Can you tell me why they called it a Borneo Bat-Eater? n/p posted by Rob G. on August 12, 1999 at 11:44:19:

: Once upon a time, there was a man named Hank Molt. He was an animal dealer like no dealer in business today. In the early 1970s, he had a import business the likes of which will never happen again, his occasional price lists were about the best reading there was in herpetoculture. Most of us back then learned many of our scientific names from those lists. He eventually got in trouble (over Fiji Island iguanas, among other things,) disappeared for awhile, and then resurfaced in a smaller business about 1980. In late 1981 he obtained either six or eight hybrid pythons, [once he told me they were from Europe and another time he told me they were from Philadelphia--the one thing for sure about Hank was that you could never be sure about what he told you (still true today, now that he's back in about his fourth herp business reincarnation)]

In any case, in late 1981 he sold a pair of the hybrids to The Shed, then the largest reptile dealership in the country, based in Miami, run by two wild and crazy guys named Louis Porras and Joe Beruducci. Louis was (is) an excellent photographer and he took a great picture of one of the little hybrids, a stunning little snake, they printed up a stack of the photos and on the back they printed a Christmas greeting and at the bottom identified the little snake as the "Borneo Bat Eating Python (Python nykerifagos borneonatis?)." They then sent this out in Christmas envelopes to several hundred of their best customers, including every zoo in the country.

It was a joke, a joke made obvious by the bogus scientific name. But of course, several parties didn't get the joke and really tried to by the "new species." It made a big enough ruckus that later in June 1982 at the International Reptile Breeding Symposium, everyone was still humming about it when Hank Molt showed up with one of the specimens and let everyone handle the little snake. It was a big hit.

I only know where two of the animals went, and they were still alive in 1990 and they were still called Borneo bat-eaters. So the name hung around long enough to still be in use when Bob and Kevin figured out how to breed more.

And that's the story of the Borneo bat-eating python. And by the way.... The old Christmas cards from the Shed are genuine valuable collectors items--if you have one, don't let it get away cheap.

I've heard this from Hank and read this fron Dave Barker (obviously) The bateaters came from a guy in Philly that just had his burm and his retic together. They are not a naturally occuring hybrid.

That is a very interesting article. I am contacting every herper in the Great City of Philadelphia (yes, I'm a Philly native) that I can think of and I can't seem to find anyone who knows of this mystery Bat Eater Breeder. I think we need to move this to a Bat Eater Forum. I know that Bat Eaters have been imported, I'm absolutely sure of it. Now I just need to come up with some proof. Hopefully, within the the next day or two I can dig something up. Good job on digging that up and don't call me sparky.

Another interesting spin on the Bat Eater story. This one seems to support your side more than mine, but it's not a bad read. This is starting to get fun!

http://www.bobclark.com/bcforums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21465&FORUM_ID=11&CAT_ID=1&Topic_Title=Finally the Borneo Bateatter Story!!&Forum_Title=Picture Forum
Link

Correct about the bateaters. They were brought into this country by Joe Beraducci not long after "The Shed" was dissolved and he was part of Zoological Imports. I believe he coined the term. As far as I know, they were NOT natural occuring, and had been bred overseas. He just got the first ones in. And no, balls and Angolans do not have overlaping ranges.
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1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.1 Woma (Juvie female)
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.0 Angolan Juvie
1.1 Savu
1.1 Juvie Bloods
1.1 Juvie Balls
1.1 IJ Carpets
1.1 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
1.0 Jungle Carpet
2.2 Scrubs (on breeding loan)
0.1 Jungle/Diamond cross
0.1 child, CB
0.1 wife, WC

please

He is a normal 100% het for nothing.

If it could be done - there isn't much chance at getting rich from it - most people don't like/buy hybrids there is a very small market for them - alot of hybrids are sterile some aren't could be a big factor when putting a price on it as well as looks and the overall health issues that may occur from the crossing - ball hybrids run about $5K - there are many more morphs that will bring in more than that if you are solely looking to get rich.
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer