Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I mean, is this industry standard now?!!!!!!! "you send me $10k and then Ill send the snakes". what do you guys think about people, dealers, breeders, etc, like this? should we just trust and buy, or should we beware? whats so bad about paypal? why do breeders/dealers/people not like them? why do people want $ orders/ postal orders/ etc, but not visa/ paypal/ or whatever to protect the buyer. are they all scams? what do the real people think?

I've bought 4 snakes out of state that had to be shipped to me and have used paypal only. If I were to pay with money order or the like I would definately do my homework on the person I'm buying from. I would do that anyway...but more so with that payment type. I think everywhere you buy from would like the payment first before they ship, not just with reptiles but anything. If you buy a snake from me, you're just as likely to receive the snake and not pay, as I'm likely to receive your money order and not ship. Buyer beware is always in effect, we just have to be careful and cover all corners. Just my 2 cents.

All of the snakes that I have bought have all been money up front, but I agree with the last post if it is a money order or check, it is hard to trust I have been burned before, but not all of the retailers are like that, some jsut dont have a paypal account
thanks
tony butler

thanx

Thanx brother!

Industry standard now? As opposed to when? Typically when you buy ANYTHING you pay for it first and then receive the item, whether it's at that moment or a few days afterwards.

It's very simple - buy from those you know you can trust/with established reputations.

I certainly don't know anyone who will offer credit to any joe-shmoe off the street when it comes to high dollar animals. Look at it from the breeder's perspective if a customer says, "I know you don't know me & I have no reputation in this industry, but how about you send me a (insert morph here) and then I'll send you $10,000 for it." Yeah, right! Betcha dollars to doughnuts the breeder will see neither money nor snake if they fell for that with just anyone!

If you're that worried that you're going to get ripped off, buy @ a show or from a local breeder.

Kara - NERD

>>I mean, is this industry standard now?!!!!!!! "you send me $10k and then Ill send the snakes". what do you guys think about people, dealers, breeders, etc, like this? should we just trust and buy, or should we beware? whats so bad about paypal? why do breeders/dealers/people not like them? why do people want $ orders/ postal orders/ etc, but not visa/ paypal/ or whatever to protect the buyer. are they all scams? what do the real people think?

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www.newenglandreptile.com

not all shows have what people want.
not all breeders in the local area have want people want.
Sometimes we have to go outside the box to get what we want.
when i say $10k first, then they ship, I mean, why not use an intermediate company to make sure both parties are satisfied.
Almost like an escrow account.
$10k might be small cheese for NERD, but is portions of income for the rest of us in this hobby. HOW ARE THE BUYERS SECURE?

Research your sellers? thats a laugh. It seems that there are 50 new sellers everyday. This indusrty had trust, but it has been broken by people scamming.

Track records for businesses dont mean anything anymore. My friend and fellow breeder in s. fl got burnt big time because the comapny he bought from (that burnt him) was sold two days later. that comapny was then dissolved and a new one was formed and there was nothing he could do about it.

sometimes all it takes is for us to be decent to each other in our business and hobby.

After all, the people that have made a business out of this hobby need to realize that its people like us that make this hobby and its business like you that serve us. Without us there is no you, and vise versa. It only a matter of time before the scammers out wiegh the logits and no one trusts anyone anymore.

All Im trying to say is breeders and companies should unite and make it easier for us to spend $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ with you, without losing sleep at night!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>not all shows have what people want.

Yep.... I want some Hot Strippers to buy snakes from at the shows and I NEVER SEE ANY!!!!

>>not all breeders in the local area have want people want.

Yep..... I have lots of things people DON'T want.....

A HUGE PILE OF BILLS FOR ONE!

>>Sometimes we have to go outside the box to get what we want.

"Outside the box?" I think you would have to "Go into" the box to get the "bag out of the box" and look at your snake!

>>when i say $10k first, then they ship, I mean, why not use an intermediate company to make sure both parties are satisfied.

What for? Whaaaaaaaaaattt???? And pay them for this?
>>Almost like an escrow account. This is to protect the buyer from scum bags? If you are dealing with scum be prepared to SUFFER...there are MANY good/great breeders to deal with and this type of thing would not be needed!

>>$10k might be small cheese for NERD, but is portions of income for the rest of us in this hobby. HOW ARE THE BUYERS SECURE?
Choose your breeder with CARE!
>>
>>Research your sellers? thats a laugh. It seems that there are 50 new sellers everyday. This indusrty had trust, but it has been broken by people scamming.

There are not enough breeders that have been around for a time and have a REPUTATION? What is the reasoning behind this?
>>
>>Track records for businesses dont mean anything anymore. My friend and fellow breeder in s. fl got burnt big time because the comapny he bought from (that burnt him) was sold two days later. that comapny was then dissolved and a new one was formed and there was nothing he could do about it.

And what did they BUY?
>>
>>sometimes all it takes is for us to be decent to each other in our business and hobby.

World peace, love and hugs? Sounds nice but where ever there is MONEY there is a RAZOR in a Box of Cereal along with a prize that is often not worth the chance.

If it sounds too good to be true SHAME on YOU!
>>
>>After all, the people that have made a business out of this hobby need to realize that its people like us that make this hobby and its business like you that serve us. Without us there is no you, and vise versa. It only a matter of time before the scammers out wiegh the logits and no one trusts anyone anymore.

Ok I suppose, it sounds like you got BURNED and you are taking that idea and projecting it on the NORMAL Hobbyist sector!
>>
>>All Im trying to say is breeders and companies should unite and make it easier for us to spend $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ with you, without losing sleep at night!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unite? The breeders just need to be realistic with the customers and sell them GOOD animals...many of them ARE!

What am I missing?

SATAN
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www.newenglandreptile.com

>>Yep.... I want some Hot Strippers to buy snakes from at the shows and I NEVER SEE ANY!!!!

Except it's probably because It's never in the budget to hit Daytona. Perhaps someday.
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Violette Garcia
www.shakahnsgrove.com

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g...

Just my opinion....If your laying down 10k on anything you want to inspect first!! Especially a high end snake , I would recommend a purchase in person, I personally would like to check the animal for health issues, Would like to see it eat , thats with any breeder . Unless you know the breeder personally I would recommend a in person inspection of the animal. Not only that but bring some extra dough you may see something you just have to have!!!! I recently found a motorcycle online and the purchase price was $6000.00 I could have had it shipped for $500.00 . Instead I paid $750.00 for plane tickets for me and my wife and flew to colorado from calif and rode the bike home. although the bike was everything the seller said it was Im glad I went .

When you go shopping in any store (doesn't matter which one) do they let you take the product home and then let you pay for it after you get home? Or do you have to pay for the merchandise before you leave the store? Why would a breeder/seller be any different? What's stopping you for not paying for an animal you received in good faith? Who wants to send me 100K in animals???.....I promise I'll pay!!!....Don't you trust me???...lol.

Next time you are felling good about life give a complete stranger your car keys and tell them to bring your car back when they are done with their test drive (you stay at home). A normal person wouldn't do this so why would you expect someone to give you a 10K animal without you paying for it?

Regards,
Corey
PS Most people accept paypal and/or credit cards.

>>I mean, is this industry standard now?!!!!!!! "you send me $10k and then Ill send the snakes".

If you were a seller would you rather send someone you don't know a $10K snake and hope they pay?

>>whats so bad about paypal?

You have no protection what so ever with paypal - if the seller can prove a box was sent to you then you are SOL if things don't pan out dead snake, missing snake, wrong snake, etc. - even if you put it on a credit card through paypal it's like getting blood from a rock to get that money back should the transaction not pan out - much esier if the breeder takes credit cards up front. Also paypal takes out 3% for credit cards - do the math on what the breeder looses in fees on a $10k transaction.

Money orders are a good option but a pain on both ends - too many fake ones now days and too many people cashing them and not sending snakes.

But the same problems can be said for every item bought and sold over the internet. Do your homework before purchasing and be sure you got your backside covered.
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer

from a sellers point - aside from the fees that paypal takes out - you could get a payment from a buyer - spend the money - then the buyers payment bounces and paypal can't get the money from the buyers accounts and comes after you (a month later) for the money.
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer

.

if you worried about getting burned, then pay with a decent credit card. if you dont get your snake, your credit card company will give you your money back. anyone who sells BP's, collects the money, but doesnt ship...wont last a week in the business. Dont pay for a $10k snake without first talking on the phone to the person your buying from...thats just stupid. I doubt many breeders sell a $10k strictly via a web transaction as it is.
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0.1 CB '05 Ball Python
Chlorhexidine

and you are spending 10k...hop on a plane and do the deal in person. It's only a few hundred extra for peace of mind
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Matt Lerer
'Ghi Reptiles'
'Ghi Arboreals'

>>I mean, is this industry standard now?!!!!!!! "you send me $10k and then Ill send the snakes". what do you guys think about people, dealers, breeders, etc, like this? should we just trust and buy, or should we beware? whats so bad about paypal? why do breeders/dealers/people not like them? why do people want $ orders/ postal orders/ etc, but not visa/ paypal/ or whatever to protect the buyer. are they all scams? what do the real people think?

Well, I think most has been stated, but just to add a little more.....

PayPal charges 3.5% on the transaction so that meens if you pay me with paypal 10 G's I would loose $350 bucks. Money order would make me more comfortable here...unless you would pay to the seller, the extra $350 for the paypal....

Also I think with all the forums out there.....people should not ever have to buy from a totally unknown person....especially a large $$$ deal. Check out the forums and ask for references....then check those out as well. Then decide.

Big Breeders have a reputation to up-hold....they are in business to stay.....they will go the extra mile for any customer....treat them well and they treat you well.

I would say if it's big money, go to the big breeders.

The small guys need to earn some for a while....

Just my 2 cents....Andy Federico

>>I would say if it's big money, go to the big breeders.
>>
>>The small guys need to earn some for a while....

First off...this is nothing against the "Big Boys" of yesteryear's threads...so don't misread this.

OK...For big money, go to big breeders...One can make an argument there, but what is that second thought?

"Small guys need to earn some for a while?" Seriously, If anyone is producing and selling $10G snakes, what do they have to earn? Are you saying b/c you're "small" you must sweat out hard times before you sell big snakes? I might be totally misreading what you wrote, and if so, I apologize, but either way, what is that statement supposed to mean?

Jeremy Conrad
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Isn't it cooler that serpent's don't walk anymore?
(Genesis 3:14)

I think we should start a movement to stop all of these terrible breeders and their antics!!!

Dredge the bottom some MORE!!!
Like NEVER before...

SATAN

>>I mean, is this industry standard now?!!!!!!! "you send me $10k and then Ill send the snakes". what do you guys think about people, dealers, breeders, etc, like this? should we just trust and buy, or should we beware? whats so bad about paypal? why do breeders/dealers/people not like them? why do people want $ orders/ postal orders/ etc, but not visa/ paypal/ or whatever to protect the buyer. are they all scams? what do the real people think?
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www.newenglandreptile.com

I see we have another pantera conoisseur in the crowd. Sweet.

DIMEBAG IS FRIGGEN GONE..... a Year ago TODAY!!!!!!!!!!!!

PAINFUL!!!!

How can this be? For REAL???

Drag the Bottom some MORE!!!

SATAN

>>I see we have another pantera conoisseur in the crowd. Sweet.
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www.newenglandreptile.com

Yea, wasnt he shot on stage? Havent pulled out that CD in a while. Ive been feelin Atreyu lately

Derek Federico

I think this thread is a fishing expedition and you are wasting your time.

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g...

if you are planning on spending 10 k on an animal, in my opinion, i would want to go and pick it up in person.
if you can afford 10 k for a snake you can afford an additional 1 k to fly out over a weekend. and you get to assure its health and that it is what it is supposed to be
.

As a fulltime ebay powerseller (buyer always sends money first), and I've been there over 8 years, I've got a decent perspective on it. IF a buyer sends money through paypal and pays by checking account (NOT CC), he has no recourse if the item is "not as described". You don't get your money back. If you can prove it was never delivered, that's a different story.

When you pay by credit card through paypal, and there's a problem with the item/animal, you can complain to paypal, they will deny the claim, but then you can call your CC company and get the charge reversed. On the other hand, if you're the seller, and someone simply doesn't like your animal, or kills it by mistake, the buyer can also do that and the seller is out the bucks AND the animal/item, which sucks...and it's been done.

So...as has been said earlier in this thread....buy from someone you know....and sellers, only do business in cash through paypal. HOWEVER......it's a violation of paypal's policy to not accept CC payments on ebay's site. Just through paypal's website...that's a good question, and I may call them and ask.
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1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.1 Woma (Juvie female)
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.0 Angolan Juvie
1.1 Savu
1.1 Juvie Bloods
1.1 Juvie Balls
1.1 IJ Carpets
1.1 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
1.0 Jungle Carpet
2.2 Scrubs (on breeding loan)
0.1 Jungle/Diamond cross
0.1 child, CB
0.1 wife, WC

My husband had the same idea as you, what do you mean I pay you and then you ship!! In his business he calls up his supplier they send him what he orders along with an invoice and he sends them a check. Does this mean that the martial arts world is more trusting? Nope it is one incorporated business dealing with another incorporated business, and for the first year of dealing with his suppliers they sent everything COD so that he had to pay in order to pick it up.
Now they will not ship animals that way, the airlines that is because of the risk of the animal not being paid for and then dying while they are sending it back to the sender. Live animals can't be sent that way so breeders need to be paid up front to cover their butts. Rule one in any transaction is have a paper trail so that you have legal recourse in the event anything goes wrong. Rule two always buy from someone you trust.
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Nita Hamilton
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Ball Pythons
ballpythonworld.com