Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Wich one is better? 1 of my balls wont take mice live or ded and my other snakes switch in between. So i said i will try some rats but dont know if its better than mice for balls. I will be breeding rats soon and i want to switch from mice to rats for my balls, should i do this? how hard will it be to switch? The balls are still babies. is a 20 GL good for some 1 male and 2 female rats? how much does a 20 gallon cost?

you are eitehr brave stupid or trolling still if you are posting on here still uber, after your last posts i would have thought you would get rid of your bps and get a nice hot
might i recomend a diamondback

i keep my 1 male and 2 female rats in a 4 ft by 2 ft rabbit cage, and it is still crowded
your rats will eat their babies, and the cage will be too humid and stink.
and what you can afford a 20 gal aquarium for your rats but cant afford a 2nd 10 gal for your stressed out bps, give away your snakes and get off this site

ecogaurd what your doing is trolling. im new to this site and im only 15. I will buy a 20 gallon for my snakes when they are big enough but right now there doing fine in a ten gallon together. Each one always hides so its not really a problem. all i wanted to ask is which was better for balls, rats or mice. im going to get a 20gallon with a screen lid. i doubt a 20 gl is cramped. im not giving her away yet but thats my decision and not yours. so please keep rude comments to yourself.

Is everyone like that on this forum? everyone on the other forums are nice and always willing to talk but on this forum people skip your post and act mean and gritty if they dont see your ten thousand dolar snake that is. i just came here for help and ansers. maybe something i wont do on this forum again. if you dont like a post or thread then why post nasty comments in it?

Why should anyone continue to waste time trying to help your snakes,if you aren't willing to do so?
-----
Charles Glaspie

Tanstaafl:
"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch".
An acronym created by my favorite author Robert A. Heinlein.

you need to calm down buddy. look at my post below. always ask and never assume. thats from a kid to an adult. Good night

-----
Charles Glaspie

Tanstaafl:
"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch".
An acronym created by my favorite author Robert A. Heinlein.

if you want to really know, rats are better their bones are denser, so more calcium and the snakes grow faaster. but a warning do not live feed they tend to injure the snakes, even a baby rat.
and 20 gallons is not a good cage for rats, and it will be more expensive than a used rabbit cage. the rabit cage will be larger and able to acomodate more babies as they grow, o at least that is what i have seen in my rodents.
find your local web site for buying and selling used goods, same idea as ebay but n auction and it is local, lots of good deals on there, i see rabbit cages for 10$

my mice are in a 15 gallon, and i have humidity problems, even with a grill screen, so i recomend if you dont like the smell of feces and amonia dont get an aquarium.
and first things first before getting rats, separate your bps, i know here in mtl, there are petshops that sell a 10 gallon terarrium for 10$
and as for the cover you can make one from wood or aluminum corner trims( or gyproc corners bent and fitted together) and fine square mesh chickenwire available at your local hardware store.
if you are serious about keeping bps and want to provide the best care, dont keep them together in too small of a cage,
take 3 rats put them in a 10 gal aquarium and they will fight constantly, put them in a larger cage and they get along well together. the same applies to all animals, including snakes and humans.

Thankyou. Thats all i asked for. My dad gave me $400 to spend before christmas and im buying a whole list of stuff tomorrow. im getting 2 40gl breeders that only costs 70 bucks each tomorrow for the balls. i seriously think you had no right to attack me. people assume to many things on this ball python forum without asking. Im getting a 20gl long for the rats as i dont have enough room to hold a rabbit cage and my family hates rats. i dont mind the smell of rats, but i HATE that mice smell. i think i will just switch over to rats because you made a good point there.

DO NOT GET 40 GAL BREEDERS FOR THOSE BABIES - they need small cages - get a sweaterbox sterilite, heat tape, hides, a waterdish, a good thermostat, a temp gun and NERDs ball python manual.

You are not providing the proper care for your snakes and they are going to be too stressed and will get sick and probably die. And that will be your fault not the snakes - the snakes are not defective - your husbantry is. You will not find anyone on any forum that will pat you on the back and congratulate you for being an irrisponsible pet owner.

As for rats or mice - either will work just fine- but again they will also require specific houseing and care - will you be able to provide it?
-----
Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer

Rats smell too... especially when they're cramped in aquariums that have little to no air circulation. With three rats in a 20 gallon, you'll need to clean the cage every 4-5 days to keeep the smell down... I also keep a car air freshener in my kitchen so my friends don't wrinkle their nose when they drop by. Thats why a lot of people keep rats in racks in seperate buildings or in their garage.

Also, three rats are going to reproduce too fast for keeping 2 ball pythons. You're very seldom going to have rats the right size, and you're going to have lots of rats the wrong size before long. Have you thought about what you're going to do with the surplus rats?

What do you plan to feed your rats, and what are you going to use for bedding? By the time you get them fed and housed, the rats are going to be more expensive to breed than to buy from a petstore. It costs me 12 dollars a month (and a couple hours a week) to keep my 6 rats, and I would spend the same to keep 3 because they're all in one cage. How much do you spend on food each week??? Just putting this out so you know what you're getting into...

Personally, I wouldn't breed food until you're pushing 10-12 snakes. Otherwise there just isn't a good balance (need vs production vs expenses) to make it worth the effort.

i agree, my 2 female rats put out 24 babies every 3 weeks, i get just enough for my needs, i have 4 adult bps eating fullsize, 2 yearling bps and a bull eating just weaned rats and 2 yearling corns eating pinkies.
so that is 9 snakes, and i usually have extras to freeze for a rainy day while feeding all of my snakes once a week
oh and a burber skink and a leapard geck that love pinkies( although neither of them get them any more, i have the fatest leo you will ever see. he is now on a mealworm only diet
so 2 rats would be better for your case. you will get all you need, with some to freeze for later when your parents get tired of the rat smell.

Putting the rats in one of the 40 breeders, the snake that eats in the 20 long, and keeping your scared, stressed, non-feeding baby in its comfortable 10 gallon until its no longer stressed and learns to eat.

This setup should keep you going for several months, and then when your non-feeding baby starts to eat and outgrows the 10, you can buy her a 20 gallon too. Or better yet, since you bought 2 40 breeders, put the larger baby in the spare (hopefully still empty) 40 breeder and move the smaller baby into the now vacant 20 long.

This maximizes your space, and has the best chance of making all your animals happy.

the book that the other person just recomended is being sold on http//www.[bleep].com/forums/showthread.php?t=75925
it is written by nerd, one of the breeders who posts here, and i hear it is very good and for you a very wise investment.

I feed my ball pythons mice and rats. rats are better they make the snake grow faster. my female ball python always ate mice so this is how I got her to eat rats, first I gave her a mouse after she was done eating the mouse she wanted more so I put in a rat pup she grab it right from my hands, and then on she ate mice and rats. The cheapest way to buy a cage for a baby ball python
is to go to a wal-mart and buy a 28qt rubbermiad cage they cost $5.00, but once the ball python gets about 35 inches get a 44 qt for $11.00 at wal-mart. Rats are easyer to breed. A perfect cage for rats are wire cages, because rats realy stink in tanks so do mice. Hope This Helps, Thanks Scott

thankyou all for the info. Ill try and do my best for both the rats and balls. I have more than 2 snakes and i know people that breed for only 4 snakes. im not an iresponsible owner at all its just that caring for stuff isnt easy. i keep tossing out food like crazy for this non feeder ball. i had to shove a tiny mouse in her mouth to get her feeding and that was 3 weeks ago. ill probably have to keep doing that for a steady time just to get her to eat. im busy today but i let a friend go buy me a 40 gl breeder and some rats. i dont have 400 bucks to spend as i orriginally thought now that i have to factor in the christmas gifts i have to buy for my family and friends. so its either the rats get the 40 breeder for a few months or the balls for a few months but since my friend is picking 3 rats up i think its to late. im not a troll and i love coming to this website but i know im doing this out of the book and what may work for me may not work for others. ill try and pick up that book that you guys are talking about.

Here is an idea. How about you get rid of all your animals until you have the time and the money to properly care for them? That sounds like the responsible mature thing to do.
People have been giving you suggestions and great ideas and you keep ignoring them.

dont know about giving up my animals as that would be a waste of money. But good news, i got my rats about 20 minutes ago. friend delivered them to me. i got 1male and 2females and im going to name them soon. they dont stink like mice and are very furry. they are in the 40gl breeder and are eating. im not ignoring advice but my question was for rats or mice not care of ball pythons. i'm not cheap just dont have the money to put into every single snake but anyway take care.

With an attitude like that... you'll go FAR!!!

Anyone want to start taking bets on how long it will take until the nonfeeder is dead?

Unless you fix the aforementioned husbandry issues, you won't have any snakes TO feed...

Good luck with that.

By the way, what bedding are you using, and what are you feeding your rats? Things like that can make a huge difference in the health of your adults, and therefore your production.

"i'm not cheap just dont have the money to put into every single snake"

That right there should tell you that you are without a doubt an irresponsible owner and clearly not ready for these animals.

Give them to someone that will give them the respect they deserve - before they end up dead.
-----
Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer

misskiwi i feed them L&M rodent block and i just threw in some table scraps and uncooked macaroni a few minutes ago. they are eating and they are running on there weel. the girls smell like grapes and the boy rat smells like corn or corn chips. tosha i try to do the best for my snakes. if 1 doesnt eat its not the end of the world. i was going to give up the girl but my neighbor doesnt want it now that he knows its not eating. so ive decided to keep her and when shes hungry she will eat. in aa few weeks ill have some rat pinks to feed her provided the rats deliver on what they were bought to do. im not irresponsible tosha or i wouldnt care about them and wouldnt feed them at all. you act as if i can pull a miracle out of my butt and use the money that i need for this week to buy them cages but i cant. i hope all of you will understand.

Rodent block with mac and cheese for desert... sounds like my rats. They're the best garbage disposals ever born...

As far as your snake not eating, I hope you realize it is not the snake that has the problem. IT IS YOU! The snake WILL NOT just eat when its hungry. It could be starving, but it won't eat until it feels COMFORTABLE. Until you make the snake comfortable, its instincts are going to tell it to hide, not eat. Snakes don't work like you seem to think. By the way, my cat stopped eating too last month, it turned out to be a medical problem. He was starving, but couldn't eat because of a food allergy. If I had your point of view, my cat would be DEAD. But no, I took him to the vet, and spent 100 bucks to find out what was wrong... Animals don't eat when they're hungry, they eat when they're healthy and happy... Housing is cheap. Get another 10 gallon, a heat pad and a water dish and put your bigger snake in it... seriously, how hard is that?

OK jeez ill get a 20gl long tank tomorow for the big sister and keep the ball that wont eat in a ten, are you happy? i hope she will eat though. i hope im not sounding like i dont care or something. How much do you think the 20gl long will cost? if a ten gallon is 8 dollars plus tax then im guess the 20gl is 16 dollars plus tax? how much do they cost near you? i have put the rats in the patio outside with the mice because of my mother. do you think they will be ok? im going to check on them every morning before school just to make sure. Like i said im sorry to all of you if i seemed iresponsible.

In a nearby overpriced pet-shop, they are selling 20 gallons at $48. The 40 gallon breeders are $92. You can find them A LOT cheaper, it all just depends on where you look. I haven't really looked, but I don't recommend spending that much for a 20 gallon (unless you have no other option).
-----
Ryan Farris

You put the rats outside... what state do you live in again? In someplace like FL I think he might be okay but in a place like Indiana they'll freeze to death. Not to mention that if it rains they'll drown.

well its 30 something degrees outside but the patio is insulated and i have a heater that i dont use anymore out there so i guess there ok. a 20long for 50 dollars? thats odd i figured they would be cheap. hopefully i'll find one tomorrow that isnt overpriced. anyway im going to go beat up a panda bears cub and thanks for the info guys.

The joys of beating ones head against a brick wall....

Every so often, I'm not sorry that I never found a wife and started a family. Most of the time, I wish I had, but sometimes, being an middle-aged bachelor doesn't seem too bad.

I have two snakes, and everyone tells me that my aquariums are on the elaborate side. I guess I'm on the obsessive side. I could probably simplify things and make caretaking easier, but I can't imagine having the energy to care for four or five snakes as well as raising both mice and rats. I'm getting tired just reading this thread.

Bill
-----
It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.

OK Seriously - go to walmart and pick up a sterilite depending on the size of the snake you can either get a 16 qt (for a small snake) or a 32 qt (for a larger snake) the smaller sterilite will run $5.00 the larger one $9. Then go to the classifeds cage and supply section and find MG Reptiles order a piece of flexwatt heat tape (ask for it all ready to plug in) it'll run you about $8. I'm hoping whatever you are heating your 10 gallon on you have a thermostat or rheostat - plug the heat tape into that if you can, if you can't go to petsmart and get a cheapy for $20-$30 check ebay you may be able to get one for $10 but you really need one for the heat source. Pick up a small hide (one that your snake will fit tightly into)you can make a cardboard one out of any small box and a waterbowl - standard dog crock will work great $2. Remember when purchasing for a baby snake - it's better to err on the small side than too large. Put the snake inside the tub and leave it for a week - don't check on it (except to change water) - don't try to feed it just leave it alone - make sure you have it in a low traffic area - or stick it in your closet! After a week - at night - put a dark mouse or rat pup (depends on the actual size of the snake) in the cage with the snake if she doesn't take it within an hour take the mouse out if you are feeding rat pups you can leave it in there overnight but don't leave a mouse overnight. If she doesn't eat take the pup out - stick her back in the closet and don't try to feed her again for a week. You may need to switch between mice and rats dark and light colors - some ball s have preferences - you need to find hers. If all else fails contact your local herp society and find a breeder near you to take the snake off your hands.
-----
Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer

you will wake up one morning, go check on your rodents that stink because they are in an aquarium, and a racoon will have smelled them and came along for a free meal, broken your aquariums, and you wont have food for your snakes, and will have wasted your money rather than take our advice. i have 10 mice in a 20 gal aquarium, and the reak, and i have a humidity problem( dont worry i am culling them down to feed to my bullsnake who prefers fresh killed) my 10 rats are in a grill cage 2 ft by 4 ft, and i cant even smell them at all, so use my previous advice and get a used rabbit cage, aand let your mom see you are taking better care of yur rodents.
maybe she will let them back in the house

Rats are fine in an aquarium - as long as it's not too small and you clean it regularly.
-----
Ryan Farris