Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi! I am new to this forum but I have had snakes for a few years. My question is- How do you kill rats without feeling bad about doing it? I usually buy frozen food and it lasts a while because I only have 2 snakes. I just ran out and had to go get live rats from the pet store. My problem is that I have a pet rat that I like very much and I can't seem to get myself to kill the snake food rats. I guess it's not as bad if they are already dead when I get them. I also don't want to throw them in the snakes cages alive because I don't want to end up with injured snakes. What do you think about when you kill your rats? Maybe I'm just a wimp? Thanks--

most of the pet stores in my area sell frozen as well as live.
usually cheaper.
Maybe that is an option for you.

Also, they will usually prekill for you if you ask them.

I never really considered what I thought about, probably the same thing I was thinking about right before.....

usually who ate and who needs to be fed.

I don't think that there is anything someone can tell you to ease your conscience, either you can do it or you can't.

TomChambers

Thanks. I should have asked if they would do it for me at the store. Didn't think of it. It would look funny if I brought them back just to get'em killed....LOL Thanks for the reply.

i prekill the mice for my bp. all you do is pin the neck down firmly with a ruler, wood spoon, etc, and then give a quick hard yank on the tail pulling it up and away. crunch! and instant death. sometimes the hind legs will kick for 20 seconds or so, but these are just nerves still firing.
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0.1 CB '05 Ball Python
Chlorhexidine

that works well for mice and small rats, but its not the most humane method for large rats, not to mention it probably gets more difficult as the rats get bigger.

For small rats, I always put them in a grocery sack and hit them on the edge of a stair step... something that would allow me to create a large enough impact to ensure a swift death. I started to find it harder and harder when I got pet rats as well. I just let the snakes kill the rats themselves and watch the process to make sure the snake doesn't get hurt.

Your best option (other than feeding live) would probably be to create a CO2 chamber. Its a humane way to kill them, and you have the option not to watch the process by putting them in a dark garbage bag or something... I've never used a CO2 chamber though, so maybe someone else has directions on how to build one.

I do~ check the link at the bottom. If your only killing a couple rats a week, it's a bit costly though. You'll be better off doing the "cervical dislocation" (described above in another post~ the ruler or screw driver blade on the neck~ swift yank back and up on the tail) or "thumping" (in the sack~ aimed at a wall or stair)

What do I think about when I kill them?
I think about how to do it as quickly and painlessly possible.
Build a CO2 Chamber

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Cheryl Marchek
AKA JM
Check out my website at:
The Red Dragons Den

If you only have two snakes to feed it may be easier just to feed live, just keep an eye on things. Only leave the rat in with the snake fifteen, maybe twenty minutes. If the snake is hungry the rat will be snatched and swallowed in that amount of time. If not, remove the rat and try again in a week. Good luck.

Quig

Personally I think the danger a snake is in with a rat loose in the cage is blown a bit out of proportion. That kind of thing happens when a rat or mouse is left in for extended periods and unattended.

feeding live is not a good idea. why not just prekill it? it takes all of 30 seconds, and its not difficult. if the snake misses its mark and strikes the butt of the mouse or rat, the rodent can bite the snake. if the snake connects, the rodent has a good 30 - 45 seconds to scratch the crap out of the snake. ive seen it happen.
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0.1 CB '05 Ball Python
Chlorhexidine

Yes I have seen it happen when a rat scratched a snake very badly to the point the snake did not make it due to infection. However this was very early in my snake keeping life and it was my fault. The snake was fed pre-killed rats all it's life and I got lazy and decided to feed the same sized rat live. Well the snake wasn't used to prey struggling and just coiled with one loop and didn't squeeze hard enough to immobilize. The rat kicked for about 5 seconds and completely skinned 7 inches off the burm. Now when I feed live prey they are the proper sized rat for the snake, and they are instantly immobilized. The problem with feeding prekilled or frozen to entire colonies is that you will be wasting alot of rats due to ones that will only eat live on a routine basis, most of mine are like that. Another important thing to consider is that no live animal should be left unattended with your snake.
Josh Hutto.....JKReptiles
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2.3 het pied (RDR, alan bosch x 2, BHB x 2)
1.1 het albino (ben siegel, gulf coast)
1.2 het citrus ghost(gulf coast line)
1.0 citrus ghost (gulf coast line)
0.1 graz pastel female
1.6 05 normal bp's
0.6 04 normal bp's
2.5 adult normal bp's (some need breeding to see if norm)
4 various corns
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa (alan bosch)
1.0 american pit bull terrior
1.1 taco dogs (ankle biters)
1.0 grey cat
1.1 bearded dragons

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrior as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

Wow I think this is the first time that I have disagreed with you Quig! Yes, from what I have read and seen there does seem to be few actual cases where a rat or mouse has injured a snake badly. But for me, I would rather completely remove the risk all together and just feed out prekilled. We were lucky with ours because he was already eating F/T so we just continued from there.
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Bryan, Atlanta GA

1-0-0 Rescued Ball Python - Apep
0-1-0 Rescued Mountain Horned Dragon - Ki
0-0-1 Rescued Aggressive Bearded Dragon - Zeus
0-0-1 Rescued Non-Alpha Green Iguana - Bud
1-1-0 Rescued Rats... no wait... ROTTEN Little Cats - Ra, Bastet
0-0-1 Rescued Dieting Panda Hamster - Mr. Fluffy
0-1-0 Rescued Little Angelic Kitten - Isis
1-0-0 Horse... whoops... BIG Golden Retriever - Jake
0-1-0 Wife
2-0-0 Kids

Hey, disagreein' is good sometimes. Just don't start yellin' at me or I'll go pout in the corner. I do agree that prekilled is best, it's just that so far, for 15 years now, I feed all mine live and have never had an incident. I've got a burm and a boa that take jumbos and don't give em half a chance to do damage. They wrap two or three coils every time and completely imobilize the rat. All he can do is huff fer air that he ain't gonna get . And I NEVER leave any of them unattended at supper time. Then I also have a very small collection. Ok, I've babbled enough, But prekilled IS the bast way.

Quig

yeah I have no doubt you take great care feeding them! I am just glad that we got ours to take his first white rat over the weekend. Raise my kids to respect everyone and not to discriminate in any form... and what do I get? A snake that won't eat anything except black and brown rats!
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Bryan, Atlanta GA

1-0-0 Rescued Ball Python - Apep
0-1-0 Rescued Mountain Horned Dragon - Ki
0-0-1 Rescued Aggressive Bearded Dragon - Zeus
0-0-1 Rescued Non-Alpha Green Iguana - Bud
1-1-0 Rescued Rats... no wait... ROTTEN Little Cats - Ra, Bastet
0-0-1 Rescued Dieting Panda Hamster - Mr. Fluffy
0-1-0 Rescued Little Angelic Kitten - Isis
1-0-0 Horse... whoops... BIG Golden Retriever - Jake
0-1-0 Wife
2-0-0 Kids

ROTFLMAO!!!!!

I still prefer, for mice or rats, to simply slam them down on the concrete floor using the tail. Done right, it's rather instantaneous, and if you feed thawed, it's the quickest way. I do the same for rabbits, holding by the hind legs. I used to use a metal rod, hard behind the neck, but that can get a bit messy. My 19 year old daughter (bio student in college) saw me with 24 dead rabbits laying by my van, and said..."looks like Watership Down..the Final Chapter".

Anyway, the quicker the better for all concerned.
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1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.1 Woma (Juvie female)
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.0 Angolan Juvie
1.1 Savu
1.1 Juvie Bloods
1.1 Juvie Balls
1.1 IJ Carpets
1.1 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
1.0 Jungle Carpet
2.2 Scrubs (on breeding loan)
0.1 Jungle/Diamond cross
0.1 child, CB
0.1 wife, WC

Watershipdown, the final chapter

If you check the post above this one, JM gives good advice about using CO2 as an asphyxiant. Because so many people have used CO2 successfully, I can't recommend against it. However, there are a few other gas options that might be worth considering, particularly on a temporary basis. The most important point about any of these options is that you take proper precautions to keep from asphyxiating yourself. I've had to sit through enough safety lectures at the plant to realize that people can and do asphyxiate themselves sometimes. Usually, these deaths are in an industrial setting where people were unaware of the low-oxygen atmosphere.

One option is nitrogen which is a simple asphyxiant. Nitrogen makes up 78% of the atmosphere that we breathe throughout our lives. However, if we get into an atmosphere that has more than about 85% nitrogen, the lack of oxygen will kill us. In industry, men have walked into enclosed spaces with a high nitrogen atmosphere and dropped dead immediately. If they are removed quickly and given CPR, they may survive, but nitrogen can kill quickly. The advantage to nitrogen over CO2 is that all animals see huge amounts of nitrogen all of the time in the air that they breathe while CO2 makes up less than a percent of the atmosphere. The nitrogen-killed rat will have been exposed to a more natural gaseous chemical environment than the CO2-killed rat. The disadvantages are that CO2 is cheaper and the CO2 technique is more fully developed.

Another option is helium which is also a simple asphyxiant. Helium is rarer in the atmosphere than CO2 is, but helium is inert. Helium will not react with anything in the rat's body whereas CO2 reacts with water to form small amounts of carbonic acid. Hundreds of thousands of successful snake feedings with CO2-killed rats have shown that the carbonic acid isn't a problem. I feed my snakes with CO2-killed mice, but I sometimes wonder about it. If you can't get CO2 easily, helium is another option. Obviously, helium is lighter than air, so if you were going to use it, you'd have to reverse the CO2 technique.

Are you going to make a practice of killing them yourself or are you just going to do the current batch and go back to frozen rats? If you're just doing it once, you can probably do the job painlessly enough with a paper bag and a hose.

Bill
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It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.

Let the rat bite you, i promise the only thing you will be thinking about is you piece of **** ill show you.
I have had a few rats clamp down on me and had to get a couple stitches one time, so i got over the whole conscience thing.

If rats are handled properly and with respect, MOST won't bite you. Hamsters and mice, you betcha, they'll get you every time, but not rats.

This person has PET rats, and understands how they think, so I doubt she's worried about getting bit. I have pet rats as well, and thats why the snakes or the rat company do the honors for me.

Wait a second! This person is a HE not a SHE!! LOL!! Thanks!!! No biggie, happens all the time! Just Kidding.

LOL, you gotta laugh when a discussion on gassing rats leads to the comment "If rats are handled properly and with respect".
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Bryan, Atlanta GA

1-0-0 Rescued Ball Python - Apep
0-1-0 Rescued Mountain Horned Dragon - Ki
0-0-1 Rescued Aggressive Bearded Dragon - Zeus
0-0-1 Rescued Non-Alpha Green Iguana - Bud
1-1-0 Rescued Rats... no wait... ROTTEN Little Cats - Ra, Bastet
0-0-1 Rescued Dieting Panda Hamster - Mr. Fluffy
0-1-0 Rescued Little Angelic Kitten - Isis
1-0-0 Horse... whoops... BIG Golden Retriever - Jake
0-1-0 Wife
2-0-0 Kids

Just because they're food doesn't mean they need to be tortured prior to death.

Thats why we debate HUMANE methods of euthanasia.

And you guys could probably save yourself some nasty bites as well... rats don't bite often, but when they do, I'll agree that its nasty...

I totally agree with what you said, completely. It is just the use of the word respect caught me as amusing in this case. We have friends with pet rats and if we go over there they always make some comment about putting them up before we feed them out. We only f/t though my wife has sent many many a mouse to the great cheesy filled beyond when she worked at the zoo.
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Bryan, Atlanta GA

1-0-0 Rescued Ball Python - Apep
0-1-0 Rescued Mountain Horned Dragon - Ki
0-0-1 Rescued Aggressive Bearded Dragon - Zeus
0-0-1 Rescued Non-Alpha Green Iguana - Bud
1-1-0 Rescued Rats... no wait... ROTTEN Little Cats - Ra, Bastet
0-0-1 Rescued Dieting Panda Hamster - Mr. Fluffy
0-1-0 Rescued Little Angelic Kitten - Isis
1-0-0 Horse... whoops... BIG Golden Retriever - Jake
0-1-0 Wife
2-0-0 Kids

personally i just give them a good hit on the side of the enclosure, but a friend of mine uses a home made gas chamber.
she uses baking soda and vinegar to get her co2( the oldest and easiest way to get co2.
she puts the rats in a plastic container, inside a garbage bag, and puts in another container with vinegar. she then gets as much air out as possible. just before she closes the bag she adds the baking soda to the vinegar. then ties a knot, and lets it react. the rats are dead in very short order, and you dont need anything more than househod supplies( no 100$ to get started)
best of luck

Alright this might sound crazy but it's gonna work. A fellow herper buddy of mine stopped by the house earlier and I found a simple solution. He took the rats home where he will do the dirty work, then he's going to freeze them and give them back to me. It'll be just like normal and I can forget about the whole thing! My snakes will just have to wait another day or two to eat but that's O.K., they're well fed. Thanks for all of the replies and ideas but I think I am just going to stick with getting frozen food from here on out. I'll just have to pray my snakes don't ever stop liking rat-cicles!

Sorry, but I had to laugh when I read that. I would've given you a funny look, and had them both dead and ready for you before you could ask what the look was about! If your friend is willing to take them home, freeze them, and bring them back.....you can consider that person a helluva friend! I can see where your coming from though, every now and then I still "feel bad" about it, but it's part of what we choose to do. I'm sure there's people that have reactions from killing rats that they don't even comprehend. I used to work with Animal Control and had to euthanize literally thousands of animals(dogs,cats, etc.) there was always information coming out about the psychological affects on people that were in my line of work. Basically...killing will mess with your head! Best of luck to you in the future, take care!

Paul

Well he knows I have had pet rats for a long time so he kind of understands my dillemma. You are probably right though, I can see how the whole thing could be worth laughing at! I guess it's kind of embarrassing to post this kind of thing on a forum full of seasoned rodent neck snappers...LOL!

I just spoke w/ a guy today who drowns his rats. He puts them in warm water and drowns them so they'll be more hydrated...thought it was interesting. Any thoughts?
Jeremy Conrad
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Isn't it cooler that serpent's don't walk anymore?
(Genesis 3:14)

np

There ARE better ways to do it. If ya drown them don't they wind up wet? To messy for me, thank you.

Quig