Reptile & Amphibian Forums

There is a snake on the classifieds being sold as a Pied/Ringer. I just want to see what you guys think of it. Is it a pied? It does not have the right pattern for a pied, but I have never seen a ringer that looks like that. The ad says it was produced from a visual pied bred to a possible. I am thinking the only way to know for sure is if another visual was produced in the clutch. The snake is nice whatever it is and if it is a pied it is a great price. The ad is from today.

If it doesn't have the pied pattern, then it is a het pied...

.
-----
Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=370473

Why would you say this is a ringer, not a pied? Isn't that a visual pied I'm looking at?
Jeremy Conrad
-----
Isn't it cooler that serpent's don't walk anymore?
(Genesis 3:14)

That is an AMAZING ringer, but the thing that gives it away as a ringer and not a pied is the rest of the body. Go to Peter Kahls site (www.pkreptiles.com) and look through his pieds. Low white pieds have a very distictive look to the rest of their body pattern/color. Another distinctive feature of pieds is they have a pure white belly (and since they said this animal has "markers", I'm assuming that it doesn't have a pure white belly).

Here's a good example of a lower white pied from Peter Kahls collection. I won't post the picture as I don't have permission to, but here's the link to it.

http://www.pkreptiles.com/images/view_available_image.asp?id=pied 04 M 031&image=full

This would then be a ringer het pied? I've NEVER seen a ringer like that!

So is this ringer gene different from the Pied gene?

...And was it just coincidence that this crazy ringer came from a pied parent?
Jeremy Conrad
-----
Isn't it cooler that serpent's don't walk anymore?
(Genesis 3:14)

Yes - it is a het pied ringer. There have been many produced like this - Eric Sandoval produced a real nice one a couple of months ago. I beleive that Peter Kahl was working on trying to find out if this was in anyway genetic (some other form of piebaldism) - but it doesn't appear to be - I think he called them banded ringers or banded pieds or something like that.

Sweet looking animal but not worth $2k maybe $1k to someone that doesn't mind paying the extra $$$ just cause it nice looking.
-----
Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer

Thanks Tosha...

I didn't think they were related, but you have to admit...it's a pretty big coincidence it came from an attempt to prove out pieds...oh well...Thanks again.
Jeremy Conrad
-----
Isn't it cooler that serpent's don't walk anymore?
(Genesis 3:14)

"Sweet looking animal but not worth $2k maybe $1k to someone that doesn't mind paying the extra $$$ just cause it nice looking."

I agree. The $2K price tag is a little steep. Although I'd snatch it up at a $1K price tag. It would make a nice collection piece.

Chris
-----
mean people suck

I thought so too at first, but every pied that I have ever seen has an odd pattern and this one does not. It would be nice to breed to a visual pied female just to see for sure. Still an amazing snake, but I don't know if I would pay that kind of money for it because it might not prove genetic.

The normal patterning is a dead give away.
Het Pieds have "markers" on either side of the belly . They don't claim "markers" on Pieds.
Seems VERY pricey for a male het pied, even with that fabulous ringer... I don't think that ringers have been proven yet either.
MHO
-----
"There is a fine line between a hobby and mental illness"
COLD BLOOD.........WARM HEART

Not as pronounced as that. It happens.
Wishing it were a pied priced at 2000, isn't going to make it so.
MHO
-----
"There is a fine line between a hobby and mental illness"
COLD BLOOD.........WARM HEART

That thing is being passed around like a beach ball at a baseball game(not my first metaphor but the rest were a little offensive or inappropriate I think this is the third or fourth time it's being sold. Nice snake but it's not a piebald. There were 8 eggs and the rest were normal appearing. Here's a few pics I took before I sent him out.

Eric

-----
www.ESReptiles.com

I've never understood the whole marker issue.

Pied markers - non hets have them and hets have them, they are not a reliable way to tell if a snake is a het pied or not - but if you were choosing between a group of possibles - you may have better odds if they have the marker.

Three scales wide white belly with thick black lines running down the sides (the bottom third of the snake).

-----
Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer

That sucks - I wanted to get him when I saw you post the ad - but then like 10 minutes later - it was gone!!!! My pocketbook was thankful - I was bummed. Thats too bad it can't find a happy home. Hopefully people aren't buying hoping they can scam people into believing its a pied. Oh well - if you produce another give me a call.
-----
Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer

"Hopefully people aren't buying hoping they can scam people into believing its a pied."
Just my opinion but the current ad and pricing is a scam!
Ringers don't sell for that kind of pricing. Wish they did as I have a nice ringer project.

"Just my opinion but the current ad and pricing is a scam! Ringers don't sell for that kind of pricing."

They do if you want to add the best Ringer on the planet to your personal collection.

Chris
-----
mean people suck