Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'll start from the top. Here's history for everyone...
http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=963979,963979

I ended up getting a active UVB vapor bulb yesterday and he seemed like he immediately noticed a difference (color change, moving around the cage more). I also got some high calorie vitamin supplement and Exoterra Electrodize (electrolyte & vitamin D3 supplement) and mixed a little of each of those with some mashed up silkworms. He ate it all and seemed to perk up a little.
I found a vet about 30 minutes away that said they saw chameleons and also was referred to them by a couple other vets. I took him in about 3 hours ago with a fresh fecal sample. No parasites found and they said they couldn't do a blood test because he was that dehydrated. The vet weighed him and he was only 96 grams! The vet poked, prodded, and mand-handled him which stressed him big time. He then gave him a big shot of fluids in his stomach and then gave him about 9cc's of pedialyte, which he regurgatated a little. He said that he didn't see any signs of MBD, parasites, or anything else - he just thinks he is dehydrated. I then paid the vet $80 for this.
When we put him back in the container he just seemed like he hated me. I got him home, took him out and he barely moved. I picked him up and held him near his branch which he wouldn't hold onto. I then proceeded to hold him near the light for about 10 minutes. He could barely hold his head up. He then slipped away in my hands.
I waited to long and should have gone to the vet when I first noticed something, but he was in much better condition before the vet. This happened to my veiled chameleon about 5 years ago when she was sick. Came home from the vet and died the same night. I am just frustrated because I had to go, but I just wish there was a better outcome.
I suggest making sure you change your bulbs every 6 months and also make sure you have quality temp and humidity gauges. I messed up and now I not only had to bury Pablo, but I'm out $80 . Just a bad situation and I thought I would share in hopes that someone will learn from my misfortune.
I am going to stay away from chameleons for a while.

Take care all and thanks for your help and concern.

Justin
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1.0 Picasso panther chameleon (Pablo)
1.0 D. Tinctorius (Cobalt V.)
0.1.1 D. Auratus
0.0.1 Golddust Day Gecko

it's not easy to lose a baby!!

I agree, make sure you change your bulbs!! I do mine when the time changes, along with batteries for the fire detectors. It's easier to remember that way..

Again, sorry for your loss.
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Feenie

1.1 vieled cham.- Stitch and Rana (Missing you,Chloe)
2.0 Panther chams- Lou and Yosamite Sam
1.0 Giant Day Gecko- Mr. Gecko
0.1 Aussi Whites Tree frog- Frumpy
1.0 Peacock tree frog- Igaro
0.1 Reeds tree frog- Dottie
0.0.2 New River Tinc. Dart Frogs- Tinker and Bell
2.2 Canines Junior-pitbull chiuahuah mix, Jose- chiuahuah, Pearl- Staffie, and Daisy- Red nose Pit- foster child
1.0 Fiance- Trent species unknown
and the list grows on.............

Justin,

I am so terribly sorry about Pablo. He was an absolutly stunning chameleon, and you took GREAT care of him! Just know you did all you could, and he did live a long healthy life! Again, I really am sorry, and I hope this doesnt affect your overal outlook on chameleons. Best of luck-

Michele

Thank you so much for the replies. I appreciate the support. I was so lucky to have the luck I did with him...4 years and was his only major hickup. I miss him already...typing in the room and I look over and his lights are off. Man it's hard. My mom called and I told her and she actually started crying...Pablo has had a really good affect on a lot of people. He will be missed.

His death doesn't change my view on chameleons - I still respect and adore them and would love the chance to have another. I would like to one day breed them...to be able to give people the joy I had. This will be in the future and I'm going to not even thing about it for a while.

I am now smarter after this and I think that after time, things like temp, lighting and humidity is easy to forget - especially if nothing SEEMS to change.

Again, thanks for the support.

Justin,

You obviously did the best job you could. Chances are, it was not your fault at all. I was talkin to a kid a few weeks back, who was having abosolutely no luck with chams. He got scammed into buying from an unreputable breeder, and it came sick. He knew what he was doing, and he read all the books. He went through 3 within a couple of months, and was heartbroken. Then he told me how his friends is so healthy and he is doing everything the same way, and his friend has had his for years. Eventually he got one that did good in captivity.

The fact of the matter is that not all chams will thrive in captivity. Where one might be friendly, healthy, drink from a water bowl, and not ever seemed to get stressed out, the next one will perish when all the right husbandry parameters are met in full. They are an exotic, obviously much different that a domestic cat or dog. You got to expect a different outcome. When a young cat or dog dies, much of the time, it was the owners fault. Chameleons are often very different. Even when EVERY aspect of a chameleons habitat (as much as possible in captivity) is met, the chameleon will die of unknown causes; let me rephrase that...will die of stress. Each chameleon handles stress differently. Even if you are tip-toeing past his cage to not disturb him, just being in a cage can stress him out. Even if he is not in any cage, and is free roaming, not all of the lighting, gradients, nutrition, wind factors, ect. will be met 100%. We are not mother nature; we can only mimic it as much as possible. Anyway, what I am trying to get at is that even the biggest experts of chameleons fail at many chameleons. Nothing stopped them from becoming who they are.

I strongly encourage you to continue with chameleons. If you feel this bad over losing your cham, you will be heart broken in a few months when you realized what you gave up. Not to say that you cannot continue in a few months/years. The decision is obviously yours. I am just telling my opinion.

I hope to see you posting questions about your new cham soon!!! Have a good evening!!!

Ank-Inc.
Adam.

I know just how you feel. When I lost my very first cham it was most likely due to my ignorance. He was an early generation cbb veiled, and at that time the general opinion was that they did not need the higher humidity we now take for granted. I had one of those cheap analog humidity gauges in his cage that was totally inaccurate. Every time I see the things advertised I get mad. Also the main way we were told to offer water was by dripper. Well, my veiled used the dripper less and less as he got older, but I did not see it. After all, he looked great day after day, I was not an expert, and I got lulled into complacency. By the time I knew he was in trouble and took him to a respectable herp vet there was not much he or any other vet could really do. The vet gave fluids, and to relieve a urate blockage gave him an enema, but the damage was already done. He died that night and a necropsy found much of his bowel was necrotic. I wanted to be able to blame the vet's care, but knew in my heart that my inattention and ignorance was to blame. We want our chams to thrive so much that I think we are grateful when things SEEM to be going OK and in wishing that, we often just don't act on things like an old UV bulb, low humidity, or nutritional deficiencies. When I hear someone say "it's just dehydration" I get worried. Dehydration, even mild over time, will damage organs and lead to death. We say so often that chams are delicate. Well, I think the opposite. To survive my stupidity for that long meant he was a really tough little guy and he hid his trouble for an amazingly long time. Sorry you lost him!

I know how you feel Justin, These past two months I have lost 2 chameleons, and a long tail grass lizard. So I can honestly say that I feel for you.

I'm glad you knew to come to us, and ask questions persistantly. There are many experts here that I am glad I can utilize their help. You also did the best thing that anyone could, schedule a vet appointment. I'm glad you can now encourage others to keep changing the UV though.

With that being said, in January I plan to add a new Active UV Bulb to each animals cage. That new camera will have to wait. I can't wait until the summer comes and these cages can be moved outside.
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CANADIAN CHAMELEONS

Justin;
Very sorry for your recent loss. I've had my fair share of losses- I've never gotten used to feelings of loss nor my own feeling of guilt whenever I lose a beloved pet.
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Victor Gomez
gomezvi@yahoo.com

That is SAD I'm very sorry, we have all had our share of animal friends leave us one way or the other.
It never feels good. We seem to always have that what if I had done this or that type guilt, but sometimes it just happens even with the BEST of care.

It's a shame but he's fine now, and in great hands. So take some quiet time, feel sad, but feel better real soon and put your energies into giving another chameleon a GOOD home, when your up to it, since you enjoy them so much.

Hope to see you on here real soon with some happy news, maybe some cute pics too ,

Take care
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PHEve / Eve

Contact PHEve

Don't give up Justin, I know how you felt as I share the same experience before where I took my cham to vet to treat his prolapse and turn out dead. Anyway, you have done everything you can to save him and the rest is really out of your hand.

I'm so sorry for your loss, Justin. Thank you for posting your list of things that went wrong to help others keep this from happening to their chams. I know it had to painful for you. RIP, Pablo.
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dianedfisher@yahoo.com

My 3 CWD-Avanyu, Tripod and Drago

Hey Justin,

I am sorry you lost him, but he died in your hands (literally) which can be an unsettling, but extraordinary experience in itself. Luna died in my lap as I drove her to the vet rather than in her cage- alone. Same with Pablo. Many might say it really didn't matter to the chameleon and it may not have, but I think it does something for us. I had a cat I'd had for many, many years die at home in my arms - I'd not have had it any other way.

Don't beat yourself up. You learned a lot from this experience and you know, it may just have been time for him to go. As Carlton pointed out in an earlier thread they don't always live all that long in captivity. When/if you get another cham in the future you will know that much more re: proper lighting and hydration, but for now, just know it is OK to grieve.

I fully sympathize with the empty, dark cage. I just left Luna's up and a couple months later converted it into a rearing cage for my wild silk moths (one be the luna moth) which seemed appropriate. Maybe you can just put a vase of flowers in there for awhile - it can be a transition before dismantling altogether. Find your favorite photo of Pablo and always remember him that way. This is how I remember my Luna...

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Chameleon Help & Resource Info

0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.1 Mad. Hissers and she is on the loose!
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet