Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I realize what I will say will problem not be received well but here goes:

I raise horses, dogs, and chameleons. I love them like my own children. OUr vet says, when she dies she would like to come back as one of our pets. In the good care and husbandry of my horses and dogs, we do not alwyas"rush to the vet" for any and all ailments. We have a list of things as owners and breeders that are handalable, drugs on hand to deal with those things, because as good owners, we make it a point to learn these things, not only to save money on a vet call, but most of the time immediate treatment is required and more often then not requires simple treatment. For example, a nasty cut from broken branch that does not require stitches, you clean it, apply antibiotic ointment etc....

I do not understand why a similar regime for chameleons can't be applied before the rush to the vet. There are a few ailments that chameleons have where certain treatments can be applied and may work instead of stressing them by taking them to a vet only to find out your initial gut instinct was correct,but the extra-handling, the poking, prodding....the blood tests.... I could be off base, but I have been watching this forum for a very long time, and see in at least 50% of the cases that certain things could be treated pre-emptorally and that in the bad outcomes, I cannot honestly say that their deaths were not hastened by the added stress of the blood work, the prodding, etc.

FOr example, MBD is fairly easy to diagnose as it distorts visibly, having a checklist and certain things on hand:
1. Change bulb.
2. Apply 1 cc of Neo-Calglucon (calgulconate) (or whatever the dose is per weight (charts could be provided).
3. Ample hydration.
4. Mix proportion for electrolytes.

Couldn't similar regimens, i.e. for severe dehydration, burns, etc be put together? Sometimes preemptive benign remedies (thay will not harm but could help) aer the best defence.

Just putting this in the mix to see gather opinions.

I hear what you are saying and agree to a point. I think for keepers/breeders who have many, or at least have had their cham for a long time, likely do just what you say. But I think the concern here is that many of the forum members are new and/or have not done all their research and/or do not catch those early signs (hard in chams) and I think the biggest concern would be misdiagnosis.

I agree the vet trips can be stressful and some vets are more educated then others and certainly handle them (literally handle) differently as well. I have two: one far away but is ARAV certified and he is where I always took Luna and since he knew her he would do phone consults (free) if needed. I have another vet who is closer to me, not ARAV, but has owned many herps himself. He is Darwin's routine vet. If anything very serious comes up I would bring him to my ARAV vet. I do know that if/when I get another cham I will not be rushing him off to the vet and obsess like I did over Luna b/c I learned a lot (I also will likely not have another female) so sometimes it is a matter of experience. I did all my research (months!) before getting Luna, but certain things came up where I could not get answers without a vet trip.

As we all know, chams are often impulse buys b/c they are so "cool" and the new owner really does not know how to care for them. Many of us have repeated and repeated the preventions, such as changing lighting, humidity issues, supplementation, etc. but since this is cyber space that is all we can do.

When Carlton and I worked with the then moderator, PHWyvern, to write up and link the Chameleon Help & Resource Information (this is a sticky at the top of this forum and is in my sig) it was in an effort to make information available all in one place and setup questions for reference, too. Maybe it is time to remind all members that it is there.

So I think we do what we can here, but have no control over the improper info that some pet stores, shows and breeders give to uninformed keepers. That is my 2 cents.

lele
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Chameleon Help & Resource Info

0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.1 Mad. Hissers and she is on the loose!
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet

I think if you were to read back over health problem advice the forum has learned to give to some common problems we sort of do a standardized response. BUT, as lele said, we are usually dealing with inexperienced keepers who just don't know what "dehydrated cham" looks like, what "MBD" looks like in early stages, what a "tongue problem" acts like etc. How many times have we read the first message from a keeper that says "I need to treat for MBD" when there are all sorts of unrelated symptoms? Posters don't know what details they should give us when asking for help. Sometimes the key is buried in the 2nd or 3rd post. Then our collective light bulb goes off and we can give that simple response. Even if you don't expect to need that good herp vet right away, I think it is a very good idea to introduce your healthy cham to a potential vet, feel out the vet's experience or biases in treatment (are they the Baytril for everything school), and to get some baseline health info to use in future comparisons. Find out what types of parasites it has when healthy. Most chams have some that cause no trouble if everything else is OK. Weight, bone structure, normal eye markings or colors, kidney function, etc. I do this with every exotic I get and it has paid off. The practice now knows they may have a client with an unusual pet and this may trigger some reading and consultation before it's needed. You and your cham are known and as you may be the only cham they see will tend to respond a bit quicker. Your level of expertise, concern, and finances will help the vet later. I don't take a cham to a vet for simple things now either, but I have the luxury of years of chamkeeping. Sometimes I help the vet diagnose (he's got the lab, I have the knowledge). Working with a vet is a partnership that needs to be cultivated for everyone's sake. An hour or two of stress on a vet trip may be worth years of life.

Carlton: I think that was probably the best advice ever given on veterinary care! I agree with all that it is extremely important to learn what you can IN ADVANCE of potential problems. I also have a "reptile first aid" kit for my Chinese Water Dragons and Chameleon, so that it is readily available in an emergency. I also have an established relationship with a local "exotic" vet. He was very helpful during the first exam in showing me how to properly handle my dragons, administer medications, described potential warning signs, etc. He was very happy to know that I had researched my herps care so thoroughly and offered additional info on the care/treatment of likley issues. When Drago (my CWD) was gravid and worrying me to death, he examined her, did an ultrasound and laughed with me, when we realized that if I had just stuck it out another week everything would have been fine. Sometimes you just need the peace of mind and sometimes, depending on where you live, that peace of mind is HOURS away and people like those on this forum can offer great wisdom and advice. TY all for being there. Diane
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dianedfisher@yahoo.com

My 3 CWD-Avanyu, Tripod and Drago