Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have just come in to a baby berdie who is from a hypo pastal (please forgive me and my horrible spelling) mother and a sand fire red father. his name is boomer and he is doing very very well after 12 weeks. I have him in a exo terra cage that is 12x12x12 with a fake rock back ground and all the lights that are needed and at the proper heat setings and such.

As of now I have the substrate as a calcium sand that is very fine and he dosnt seem like he is eating it alot so I was not to worried about impaction.
My plan is to start construction of a custom cage that has a 3x3x3 foot print and is about 5.5 feet tall with a solid wood back and the sides and front plexie glass. I already have the plans drawen up and figured out the saftly parts of the design( my friend is a mech eng major) is this a good size for two berdies?
I am going to trade my current cage for another berdie, a female, because I have fallen in love with bearded dragons.
After reading throgh 3 pages of post's on this fourm I have come to see that some people here have very good advise and I would like to know if there is anything other that I can do to make their lives better.

also the feeding and types of food that I have been giving so far see to be the same as what is being recomended by people on this site.

sorry about the long post and thank you for any replies.

I (as most people on here are) am against housing beardies together.with that stated, you have them in to small an enclosure, for 2 adult beardies I would have them in something 5'*3'* 2' tall. Im not sure what you mean by 3 by 3 by 3 by 5.5 feet tall, but it doesnt sound like near enough room. You are drastically underestimating their needs. Also calci sand is alful! plz get rid of it, If you must have sand used sifted play sand it safer and its cheaper (2$ for 50lbs). I don't mean to scold or lecture it just comes out that way, blame my mother

The current cage you have is far too small even for a baby bearded dragon. A one foot cube sized cage is very difficult to heat properly etc.

Your adult cage doesn't have to be that tall, unless you plan to build two levels, with the lower level for one dragon and the upper level for the other dragon, this way both dragons are completely separated. It is recommened not to house dragons in the same cage together year around for many reasons. Dragons do not always get along with eachother, they are not very social at all. Thus, they can fight, with one or more dragons being injured, even killed. Also, one can intimidate the other, taking over the best basking spots, the bulk of the food etc. which usually results in one big dragon and one small dragon which typically doesn't survive very long. Also, if one catches something, the other will get it as well, meaning you have to treat both for any parasites, diseases etc which means more vet bills should something go wrong.

Other reasons against keeping more than one dragon per cage is difficulties between sexes. Two males, unless in a very very large cage (something along the lines of 8x2x2 feet) will almost deffinitely fight once both are sexually mature. Two females may get along but even females who have been together all their lives could suddenly decide they hate eachother and fight. If you have a male and female, you will wind up with the female being chased around by the male before she is old enough to safely have babies. Males are sexually mature as early as 6 months, and females are capable of producing eggs around 8 months of age, but some have been gravid earlier than that. Females should not be bred till they are at least 15 months old, many breeders recommend 18 months or older before breeding the female the first time. Males should be a year old, to make sure all hteir muscles are fully developed. Younger males can often suffer from prolapses, which basically means part or all of the hemipenis extrudes from the vent, usually because the male is unable to retract them properly.

Aside from being too young, having a male and female living together can mean alot of stress on the female. The male will try and breed her as much as he is able, resulting in a female who never gets a break, is often stressed from mating and being chased, doesn't eat as well etc. On top of all that, she now has a clutch to bear, which takes it's own toll on the body. As dragons are able to have multiple clutches per breeding season, even with one single mating, the production of eggs and shelling them takes a toll on her calcium reserves.

Besides the stress of egg laying on the female, you will have the sudden responsibility of incubating or destroying these eggs and making sure your female gets all the nutrition she needs, w hich means extra protein and calcium.

So it is best to house dragons separated. If you do want to breed and have a male and female, just introduce the male when the female is old enough just long enough for the male to copulate with the female a few times and then take him out.

The minimum cage dimensions for a single adult bearded dragon should be 4'x2'x2'. For each additional dragon, if you decide to house them together despite the risks and problems it can cause, add another foot to the length or width. More is better. The height isn't as important as bearded dragons are only semi-arboreal. They do not need alot of climbing space but some branches to climb up on are fine. Two feet of height is more than enough height for a bearded dragon cage. Keep in mind you want the dragon to get within 8" of the UVB light (if a florescent tube) and 18" or further from a Mercury Vapour Bulb uvb light.
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PHLdyPayne

thank you for replies.

The tank that I am building is going to have the option to seperate the upper and lower half so that I can keep them apart and let them interact sometimes. also the cage will be able to be put on its side.
the size of the cage is 5.5 feet tall, 3.5 feet wide and 4 feet long.
like I said I will be able to tip the cage on its side to make more room once I am able to make the room in my house to do so.
I am very happy that I found out eairly about the breading problems that can occur having a male and female together Although I do plan on putting a semi perminemt divider between the two I might just as well make a second cage, once I get the space I need in my house,
As for the current substrate that I have I will change it out today when I go and buy some more crickets.
here is a pic of the cage that I am going to build off of.I know it dosnt show beardies in the pic but is it still ok to use?
If I was to put this cage on its side would that make for a better bearded dragon home?
the cage tipped on its side would be 60"L 60"T and 38"D
once again thank you for you help as you can tell I dont know much about these wonderfull animals but i am researching and reading as much as I can.
If there is any other advise or anything that I should know I would be greatful to learn it.

if you build that cage as tall as you plan you are going to need a very high basking spot...that's not a hugh problem since beardies love to climb BUT, realize if you use flourescent UVB your dragon needs to be like 10" from the bulb or if you are wise and use MVB then you don't really have to have the dragon that close to the light.....however MVb don't put out that much heat.

In my opinion 3 feet should be the max height. If you build the suggested 4'x2'x2' then you can still put in a removable divider and both dragons would have enough room. I know this because i have a male and female seperated this way in a 4'x2'x2' cage (pic below).....in the picture you can see a white bucket to the right of the cage...that's my homemade beer fermentating...MMMMmmm

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a free range dragon is a happy dragon

how large are the dragons that you have in those cages? because if it is 4 feet long and has a divder then there is only 2 feet for them to have to them selves. and is your divider transparent so they can see each other or is that something that shouldnt be done?

thank you for your help.

the dragons are six and five...the only time they really spend in the cage is brumation. as my scrolling message says, my guys spend lots of time outside the cage.

the divider i am using was a sheet of plexiglass...i wanted them to get used to seeing each other and possible have them live together....well that didn't work! he would constantly scratch at it until i painted it...know he doesn't do it anymore. there is about a 5 inch clearance from the divider to the top of the cage. Only the female is smart enough to jump over. the male just tried, and failed, to scratch his way though.

i forget what else you asked...
jake
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a free range dragon is a happy dragon

It would be better to have the cage on it's side. This way, you can put a divider in that serves as the roof for the lower part and floor of the upper part. This way you will have room for both cages in the same floor area for a single taller cage. That would give plenty of room for both dragons. Just make sure the divider is secure enough to hold the lights for the lower cage. Or, you can build two separate cages and stack them one on top of the other. The light fixtures can be mounted on the inside, just make sure there is nothing in the cage for the dragon to climb on that can put it into contact with teh hot basking light. Keeping the basking spot at about 8" below the basking light will be good. Dragons are not that great jumpers so they shouldn't be able to jump high enough to reach the basking light.
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PHLdyPayne

Those are great Ideas and I will hold them with great weight as I finish and finilize my desgin, as soon as I do I am going to post full images of every step of the build and also a materials and price list so other can tell me how to improve on my desgin or use what I have for themselvs.
The cost of the cage that I posted the pic of is priced at over $800.
The cage that I am working on is under $300

Once again thanks for all of your help.

Also with the lighting I have planed on having two different heat lamp spots with two different opposit of the heat spots for cool off places, between 70-80 F, using small inderect fans. Much like a heat sink on your computers processor.
The heat lights will be on the back of the cage, my own desgin, with the UV lights at the top and possibly in a side location to let the light get to all corners of the tank execpt the covered parts.

Thank you.