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Need help with new camera selection .....

toshamc Dec 14, 2005 07:27 PM

My choices are:

Canon - EOS Digital Rebel XT SLR Camera with 18-55 mm Lens 8.0MP

or

Nikon - D50 with 18-55 mm f/3.5-5.6G ED AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor Lens and 55-200mm f/4-5.6G ED AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor Lens (I have no idea what any of this means!) 6.1MP

Which one takes the best picts (for our hobby) and is easiest to use as I have no clue about photography - this is my beginner camera.

Thanks!
-----
Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer

Replies (13)

John Q Dec 14, 2005 08:16 PM

If it's your first camera, total overkill. No need to spend that kind of money to get pics to post on the internet. Look into a 3-6 Megapixel point and shoot with a good macro. I like the older nikons but a friend just picked up the S4. Great camera, good macro, and you can get it for under $400.

toshamc Dec 14, 2005 08:23 PM

Yeah - I tried that - the camera was great for everything but taking good pictures of snakes - so now I'm going to try to step up a little and hopefully learn a bit along the way. Thanks!
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer

normal_bp Dec 14, 2005 09:10 PM

what does this have to do with balls?
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0.1 CB Normal Ball Python

toshamc Dec 14, 2005 09:12 PM

In case you wern't following along the camera is to take pictures of balls. Why, is there a law against posting some none ball related in this forum?
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer

Phi Dec 14, 2005 11:28 PM

"what does this have to do with balls?"

So... I guess all the bp pix that you see posted on this forum has nothing to do with cameras?

Eric

jgriffi Dec 14, 2005 10:49 PM

I totally agree with you he is over killing. If you pictures did not come out good with a 3-6 megapix then you were doing something wrong. i started with a kodak 1.3 auto and excellen pictures of mt balls, then a 3.2 nikon auto manual for $345 excellent pictures an now I have Olympus 300 E 8 megapix but that is over kill for snakes. I have it for all types of pictures and to make money. Don't waste your money and don't let anyone fool you that you need one.

wftright Dec 14, 2005 11:41 PM

I'm not familiar with the products on the market today, but I've done a little photography, and some of the terms that you are using are standard enough for me to give you some background. The bad news is that I'm going to write several paragraphs and end up telling you that I'm not entirely sure which camera will be best without knowing more. People who know me get used to this situation. Even so, you might find some of the information valuable.

A fellow engineer at work has done extensive research on the digital SLR market, and his conclusion is that Canon has the most advanced technology in their cameras. People getting the top of the line digital SLRs are usually getting Canons. Unfortunately, the Rebel really doesn't incorporate all of the technology. He started with a Rebel, upgraded to the next level, maybe D10, and then upgraded again to one that I think is called a D20. This camera is near professional grade. For your uses, either the Nikon or the Canon should be great, but if you find a hidden talent to make thousands of dollars as a photographer, you'll probably upgrade from either of these.

The f/ number on the Nikon lenses refers to the lowest aperture rating on the lens. When the camera is set at the lowest aperture number, for instance f3.5, the opening through which the light passes is as big as possible. While the camera is gathering all of this light, the optics on the lens need to be good, so the capacity for lower f numbers means that more quality went into the optics of that lens. All other things being equal, an f/1.8 lens is considerably better and will be considerably more expensive than an f/3.5 lens. For your purposes, these lenses should be good enough.

Understanding f-stops is important when shooting. When you're shooting in low light conditions, you want to be able to open the aperture as much as possible in order to gather light more quickly and use a higher shutter speed. The trade-off is that the bigger aperture means lower "depth of field." The depth of field is the distance over which things are in focus. For instance, if you focus on something 10 feet away at a small f-stop (large aperture), everything from 9 feet away to 11 feet away will be in focus. Everything else will be out of focus. If instead you take the same shot with a large f-stop (small aperture), everything from say 6 feet to 15 feet away might be in focus. Obviously, greater depth of field is nice for fixing minor focus mistakes, but sometimes keeping the background out of focus leads to more dramatic pictures.

The 18-55 mm and 55-200 mm refer to the focal length of the lens in millimeters. The range of focal lengths identify the lens as a zoom lens. Generally, a focal length of about 50 to 55 mm is considered to be 1X magnification. In other words, this focal length is supposed to show you a view that's about the same as what you get with the naked eye. Lower focal lengths give you wider-angle views. An 18 mm focal length is nearly a "fish-eye" lens, and I wouldn't be surprised if pictures taken with this lens show fish-eye distortions around the edges. A 200 mm focal length gets into the telephoto ranges and is similar to looking through a 4x binocular. If you want to get all of a big snake or a big cage in a shot but must remain close to the snake because you have a small room, the wide-angle focal lengths of the 18-55 lens will be helpful. If you want to be able to shoot a closer shot of something that you can't approach too closely, then the 55-200 mm lens will be helpful. With a zoom lens, you can choose how much you want the lens to magnify or reduce the image.

Another point about focal lengths is that apertures need to be smaller (f-stops larger) on lenses with longer focal lengths. (I don't remember the exact explanation. You're probably lucky that I don't.) When you see two f numbers given, for instance f/4-5.6 for the 55-200 zoom, the first number, f/4, is the minimum f-stop at the lower focal length, 55 mm. The second number, f/5.6, is the minimum f-stop at the higher focal length, 200mm.

The bad news after all of this explanation is that a feature that you really need is macro focusing, and your information doesn't tell whether any of these lenses offer macro focusing. Macro focusing roughly means being able to focus on things that are very close to the lens. Of course, "close" to a lens on the 55 mm focal length is not the same as "close" to a lens when set at the 200 mm focal length.

The 8.0 MP and 6.1 MP designations tell the maximum number of pixels in the image that each camera captures. More pixels means a sharper picture, but they also mean a bigger file. For what we post on these forums, the extra pixels in the Canon camera will not help you at all. You'll need to cut pictures from either camera by a huge amount to post them here. However, if you're going to take pictures and print them in 11x17 or some other big size, more pixels, or megapixels as they're called, will lead to sharper pictures.

I think both of these cameras will have all kinds of automatic focus and exposure options that most people enjoy using. Because I learned photography long ago with old 35 mm cameras, I tend to find these features annoying. Admitting that I find them annoying just makes me sound old, but there is a point to my ranting. I've had cameras with all kinds of automatic modes that just wouldn't take the shot that I wanted. I always recommend that people make sure that the camera has a mode that allows complete manual override. When the camera doesn't understand what you want, the override allows you to make the camera take the picture that you want. Admittedly, you still have to develop the photography skill to know what you want it to do, but when you have that skill, you don't want the camera pushing you around.

If the prices that people are quoting you are the same for these two set-ups, the Nikon is the better deal because you're getting two zoom lenses. One will give you wide-angle capability, and the other will give you telephoto capability. However, you need to be sure that one or both of these lenses have some macro focus capability. If not, you should look into upgrading the lens.

If you go with the Canon and get only one lens, I'd suggest trying to work a swap for a 35-105 or some similar size zoom lens. I don't think that you'd get much real value from the very low focal length part of the zoom, meaning the 18 mm part. You would get some value from a little bit of telephoto capability, meaning the 105 mm part of the lens I'm suggesting. I don't know what Canon is making, but lenses with designations like 35-70, 35-90, 35-135, 28-70, 28-105, etc. would all give similar performance. Again, none of these numbers guarantees macro focusing capability. You need to ask for that feature specifically.

No matter what you get, you'll need to practice.

Bill

PS. The scary thing about these subjects is that I'll be tempted to buy a digital SLR of my own. I don't need to spend that money right now.
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It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.

wftright Dec 14, 2005 11:49 PM

Someone mentioned that you don't need a digital SLR to take pictures that are more than good enough for these forums, and the point has merit. While my little "point-n-shoot" Olympus doesn't give me the creative control that I crave, I've taken some okay pictures with it. If you posted examples of the unsatisfactory pictures that you've taken with your current camera, we might be able to diagnose some problems with the shooting technique. Fixing those problems might produce good enough pictures with the current camera to save you the cost of a digital SLR. We have a Nikon at work that's a high-end "point-n-shoot," and I sometimes have a horrible time getting it to go into macro focus mode. However, once I press the right buttons, it gives me good enough pictures for my technical reports.

Bill
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It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.

toshamc Dec 15, 2005 12:19 PM

Thanks Bill for all that - yeah - the problem that I seem to have is that when taking pictures of snakes you have to be up pretty close to them and my point and shoot cameras just dont focus well up close and they don't allow you to adjust thier focus either, and if you stand back and zoom then when the snake moves it throws the focus out of wack - so I end up taking a hundred pictures that are in varying degrees of out of focus. Yeah - they would do the job for posting on the forum - but I want to get some really sweet photos for when I put my website together and I want to learn how to take those really great shots that people take of their snakes (considering it a sideline hobby) - I also want to use the camera for other things like taking pictures of my kids (which are almost as difficult to photograph as the snakes) and other pets, nature phots, etc. I recently picked up the Canon Powershot S1 (3.2MP) and it seemed to work pretty good for everything but the snakes. I'd take 300 pictures of a snake and only 5 of them would be decent - LOL - so I thought an SLR was probably my only hope - I do have some limited expereince from the olden days when you used to have to load film in the camera but not sure how much of that carries over now days (LOL).

Thanks again!
-----
Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer

bristen Dec 15, 2005 08:45 AM

I'm hoping to buy an SLR some day, just not right now... main reason is what you said: sometimes the camera doesn't understand what I'm trying to do, argh!

Thanks for posting all that information.

Bristen.

jmartin104 Dec 15, 2005 07:08 AM

I have the D50s. The D50 is more than most need. Whatever you get, you may need a macro or closeup lens to get great closeups of reptiles.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

mikebell Dec 15, 2005 08:13 AM

Tosha,
I was at the dermatologists office last week, he had an Olympus C-7000 Zoom W/super macro settings. It is a small 7.1 mp point and shoot, I have no idea of the cost. He said it can take pics as close as two inches. If it can take pics of small blemishes on someones skin it should take good snake pics. I'm not sure a super macro is even needed for a snake as big as a baby ball. I also take pics of baby Eyelash Vipers which are tiny compared to balls. Right now I use a Nikon cool pix 950 from many years ago.

I think a SLR is way over kill unless you are going to try to make posters or publish the pics in a book.

Mike

mingdurga Dec 15, 2005 10:03 AM

Howstuffworks.com.

Everything you want to know about digital and buy suggestions.

Happy Pixels.

Mike

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