Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am interested in keeping and breeding some horned lizards. I am currently in the research phase so no purchases are planned as of yet. I have already read over the site that is alway listed in these kind of posts(http://www.phrynosoma.com), but I still have several questions.

What species would you all recommend as a good first horned lizard to someone new to keeping them? The only species that I do not prefer to keep is the Texas Horned Lizard because they are listed as a 'native' reptile in Louisiana(although I have never seen one here) and would require permits, etc. From looking around, I tend to like the Giant Horned Lizard.

I see that one of the main concerns with the captive care of horned lizards is that they require ants as a prey item. Has any type of supplement ever been added to other prey items as a substitue to feeding ants? Has anyone attempted freeze drying/dehydrating the ants to have a supply during times when supplies are low?

I noticed on the GHL care sheet said "The soft freshly shed white mealworms seem to be easier to digest and should be fed when they are available". My bearded dragons are only provided with freshly molted mealworms due to the increased risk of impaction associated with feeding unmolted mealies(I suspect the same problem occurs with HLs). So I have been keeping a rather large supply of mealworms to keep adequate numbers of molteds. So if a limitless supply of freshly molted mealworms can be provided how many should be fed per day? With that constant supply of freshly molted mealworms, how many ants should be provided per day to provide the required nutrition for the HL?

Who are some quality breeders in the horned lizard community? I am only interested in obtaining quality CBB specimens.

I really appreciate the help and any advice that can be offered.

Thanks,
Daniel

>>>>>> With that constant supply of freshly molted mealworms, how many ants should be provided per day to provide the required nutrition for the HL?

I apologize. I did not catch the part of the site that covered the percentages of ants in the diet of each species of HL. Do you know if that percentage based off of weight of prey or number of prey?

I have read about the cool side(85)/warm side(105) temp requirements but I keep reading about the needed dissipation of heat from the enclosure. I suppose that this is related to the ambient air temperature of the enclosure. If so, what is the desired ambient air temp in the enclosure for HLs?

Sorry for all the questions...I just like to know what is going on with everything before I begin to care for an new critter

Thanks again,
Daniel

Hi Daniel,
A good first horned lizard might be modestum, platyrhinos or solare. The asio are a nice species, but few folks have them. They are native to Mexico and difficult to come by, and also very expensive if you can find them.
There are no known supplements or alternatives to live ants. It's a difficult problem for many reasons. Primarily, HL's prefer live ants. They feed keying off of their pray movement. I have seen my solare eat ants that were so cold they were not moving, but this is after some conditioning in that area. It might be possible to feed frozen ants to them but to my knowledge this is not done. Ants are available year round from antsalive.com. The good part is, that HL's tend to hibernate when the ants do, so it is a selfmitigating issue if you let nature take it's course. Regarding percentages, I belive it is by weight or volume, not pray number. One ant may or may not equal one cricket.
Regarding the mealworms, there are others here that can better speak to that.
The only breeder I know of that sells HL's is/was Sundial Reptiles. I am not sure if they are still working on this project. There are many that sell wild caught, but these tend to be in very poor shape due to the dealers inability or lack of desire to learn about their diet and feed them accordingly.
The ambient air temps should be 105 to 85 (or slightly cooler). The enclosure should be big enough to accomodate this. Heat from the lights required to keep HL's can quickly build beyond this in a small enclosure if not careful.
I hope this answers most of your questions.
Good luck to you in your endeavors!

If you go to this iste it will help you see what is a well respected study on ant intake: http://phrynosoma.com/Caresheets/HLFood.htm

40 gallon terririum is a good recommendation for two, with home depot play sand for substrate, a 150 watt mercury vapor bulb on the hot side and possibly another smaller watt light like a 75 watt next to it. Depending on specie you may or may not add the 75 watt. THe temps as you said should be 105 on hot side and 80-85 on cool side, need to be sure and read on hydration as this is important. If you do hernendezi I would recommend cooler hot side.

As far as ther mealworm thing, I personally think it's better to feed fresh shed mealworms, but I don't feed mine those anyway, I usually use small king mealworms, wax worms, and occasional crickets--put 75% of the feedings is ants. I live where I can collect ants locally as I am in a rural setting. I also have a bug napper which I catch moths and various insects, just be very sure you don't feed them a lightning bug as these are higly toxic, so just feed them moths and beetles, etc.

Several people are breeding horned lizards and in the spring an excellent wild caught Desert horned lizard person is Desert Reptiles in Nevada. ALso Sundial, and their are others as well. I am gald that you are being wise in reading the info on the site and learning as much as you can before you commit to hL's, they are great and are sometimes challenging. Good luck and let ius know if you have any other questions..........

THe Desert HOrned LIzard seems to be a good first in my opinion.
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