Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I now know it's possible for regular balls and het balls to have the pied marker, and it's not a 100% way to tell you have a het pied, but can a 100% het pied be without the marker?

Yes, many 100% het-pieds don't have the marker. The Het-Pied marker theory is BS at its best, another lousy marketing ploy.

Brian A.

The reports I've read are that 70-80% of het pieds can be identified by sight so that leaves 20-30% that look normal. I've only seen maybe a few percent of presumed normals with the look but have read claims of as high as 50%. Go look at your local reptile store this April/May when the babies come in from Africa and decide for your self.

So, while it may not be a perfect 1 to 1 relationship with all pied hets having it and no non pied hets showing there does seem to be a strong statistical link.

Het pied markers AREN`T a bs marketing ploy,that is a highly misinformed statement. I produced 20 babies last season from breeding my pied male to normal females and 19 had the classic genetic markers. Its obviously not an exact science,and there are some 100% hets that dont exhibit the genetic markers. But to totally disregard them and to call it a marketing ploy is fallacious. Mark Petros BallPython777.com

Mark, your 1 in 19 that didn't have the marker throws that theory out the window! Pete Kahl held back most of his marker 66% Het-pied a few years ago and only a handfull proved to be gene carriers.

Now how do you think all those imported wild type het-pied markers will prove out down the line!

Your hets were produced by a visual pied, I am sure you don't need to advertise them as hets with the marker BUT some unscrupulous dealer will use this theory to their advantage and this is where lies the BS theory...

I understand your point about unethical dealers using it as a selling point,but by the same token... 19 out of 20 would seem like a very strong indication that it is more than just a chance/random occurrence. If you were purchasing a het pied wouldnt you feel more comfortable buying one that had genetic markers than buying one that didnt? This season i have a "100% Het female" that I`ll be breeding to my pied male,this "het" has no markers and i`m scared to death that its not going to prove out. At the time I purchased her I wasnt aware of the genetic marker.Subsequently I purchased some het pieds from BHB{2003,2004} and they all have the same marker as my babies. If my "het" doesnt prove out,I`ll post the name of that dealer. Happy Holidays, Mark

Some people really hate the gray area of the pied het signs. I'm with you Mark though that there certainly seems to be a link, even if it isn't 100% and it isn't convenient for marketing. We don't get to pick how the genes work, only try to figure them out.

It sounds like there have been enough proven hets without the look that if your one girl is from a reliable source I wouldn't worry. On the other hand, I've got to worry that maybe 1 in 20 could be close to the rate of retained sperm or parthogenisis. It will sure be nice if we get a paternity test some day to see if these things are as rare as we hope.

"Pete Kahl held back most of his marker 66% Het-pied a few years ago and only a handfull proved to be gene carriers."

Has he posted the details of this experiment anywhere? I’d love to find a first hand account of what he did and what the results where.