Reptile & Amphibian Forums

just wanted to share some pics of my Honduran i got at Manassas last weekend. unfortunately, this is probably the last snake i will get as i plan to leave the hobby next year. i've grown very disillusioned over the last year with the Va. Herp Society and some of its members. seems like my efforts to try and get documentation for the Scarlet Kings a friend and i found have completely failed. i was even referred to someone by an individual on here and it turned out to be a dead-end. after trying for so long(over 2 years) and being lied to, i feel i've lost all interest. it's really a shame because this is something i've devoted a good portion of my life to and have had such a passion for and now that no longer exists. thanks for looking.

greg

I am confused. Do you have a passion for snakes or for people?? If it is snakes I don't see the problem. People are crappy all over but the snakes are just snakes, If you like snakes and have a passion then what does a group of people have to do with it????

Hate to see you go but if your stuck on the people end of it then maybe you should. Come back to snakes when they are the reason you have them.

I am not trying to be offensive, I am just giving you a perspective to look at before you end up regretting the snakes you give up.

Later Jason

Posted by: snakesunlimited1 at Fri Dec 16 03:46:06 2005 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

I am confused. Do you have a passion for snakes or for people?? If it is snakes I don't see the problem. People are crappy all over but the snakes are just snakes, If you like snakes and have a passion then what does a group of people have to do with it????

Hate to see you go but if your stuck on the people end of it then maybe you should. Come back to snakes when they are the reason you have them.

I am not trying to be offensive, I am just giving you a perspective to look at before you end up regretting the snakes you give up.

Later Jason

That was well said. I have never heard of anyone leaving any hobby due to a club or due to anyone "driving" them out . If he wants to leave the hobby than leave it.

you guys need to read my other posts. you also need to realize that it can be pretty discouraging when you're a member of an organization where people are rude, they steal things from you, and basically have an 'i don't give a damn attitude.' it's easy for someone to sit back and give the responses that you guys have when you probably haven't had an experience like this. if that's the case, then consider yourself lucky. i don't particularly feel like i should be 'ganged up on' just because i get on here and express my feelings about a situation. if you can symnpathize with me, that's one thing and i appreciate it. but, i don't need someone telling me i should leave. i can make that decision myself. as a matter of fact, in light of the comments you two made, i won't visit this website any longer. hope you're happy.

i appreciate your feelings...it can be pretty frustrating when dealing with some people types...in whatever field...i had some similar incidents....like why are some reports questioned and others just accepted...like what's the criteria for being a reliable source anyways screw 'em all...post some pics of those things....they were awesome

thanks for understanding!

I never saw the pics and would love to see them. I also found a range extension for Longnose snakes and sent in pics of 5 live specimens I found this year. Even had a professional herpetoligist verify them and write it up for me and was told it would not be accepted unless I could send in a specimen for them to pickle. My thoughts are then they don't need to know. I will wait til I find a roadkill and send them that then, if ever. Has not dampened my enthusiasm one bit.

you mean you never saw the Scarlet King pics? if not, i'll gladly put some back on here for you to see. thanks for your interest! happy holidays!

greg

Thanks, those are cool. Hope all goes well.

thanks, Aaron!

ohh! i forgot to mention. the Va. Herp Society has a pickled specimen of ours that was injured and later died and they STILL haven't documented anything! kinda makes you mad, don't it?

Greg if you contacted Gerry with the info AND gave a shed to Dr. Grogan you are documented and I suspect that your name will eventually pop up next to a reference for a Virginia population of scarlet kings. This isn't like fishing, they don't give you a citation to frame and hang on the wall.

As for the VHS enough said. Not sure why the group is so lame but untill there is a direct effort to take over the leadership nothing is going to change. Personally, I can tell you from experience its very difficult getting a club up and running and I think thats especially the case with herp clubs. By nature I think we're very independent and aren't at our best in structured environments!

Once bitten herping will always be with you. Its a pass time that has served me well through the years. What started as a childhood interest became a doorway to a much bigger natural world and eventually let to my career helping to protect the environment if only in a very small way.

In closing I'll say you're one of the most enthusiastic people in this hobby I've met in some time and I'm sorry that I met you at a time when my life is consumed by other things that I've not been able to indulge your passion and interest but don't let me or others who have kind of moved passed the first flush of excitement disillusion you. We get a HUGE kick out of hearing your stories. Personally anyone who knows how to find eastern kings, eastern milks, scarlet kings, mole kings, corn snakes, black rats and copperheads in one VA county is among the most accomplished VA herpers I know. Now quite your whining and go find a population of rattlers and northern pines!!!

hi, Tony! thanks again for your kind words. don't know if you have talked to Gerry lately, but his last email to me was as follows:
Greg,

Turns out there are specimens of Lampropeltis triangulum from Bedford County in Mitchell's book. Subspecies may not fly in this case. If we come up with them from adjacent counties where they are not yet recorded (either form) then we will be better off. Let me ponder this issue.

Gerry

i replied back to him and stated that in light of this information, having them documented again would obviously be redundant and unnecessary. as i told another VHS member a while back, Mike and i are certainly not looking for some kind of special recognition for this, just a little cooperation. we felt that it would be interesting information for other VHS members. i will admit that Steve Roble, the Catesbeiana editor, did come by my place a couple months ago and got measurements and scale counts on my specimens. unfortunately, however, he missed the deadline for the fall issue of the newsletter. now, whether the information will actually be documented remains to be seen. i just can't understand how someone finding a five-lined skink caught in a spider's web in their garage merits being reported more than finding these snakes. i know it's not news to you, but to give you and other readers an idea of the general apathy of the Society, this is a quote from the treasurer, who also happens to be a biology professor!:

"I have to fess up to Greg's complaint. I have one of their road-killed Scarlet kings. I wanted to get scale counts since that is the major difference between scarlets, milk snakes and their hybrids. I have not gotten access to Greg's snakes to get counts and then it slipped my mind as other things came up. Neither of them have ever contacted me to push me on the writing."

why should someone have to be 'pushed'?? as a matter of fact, this individual came by Mike's place several times last year to road-hunt and i actually saw him writing down information! and, for the record, he DOES have scale counts. ???? sorry for all the preaching. it's just really frustrating. this is in no way intended to be aimed toward you, though, Tony. i consider you a genuine friend and someone i hope i can collaborate more with in the future. oh! and, by the way...no Northern Pines yet, but we have found rattlers! lol!!

happy holidays!
greg

Greg part of the issue here might be that they're currnetly trying to figure out what scarlets are. Seems there are two camps one says they are milks the other that they are their own species. Still I'll email Gerry and egg him on a little for you. he may not be up on the latest debate on the issue.

don't matter what they are...this issue concerns range extension..........

Not if you discount subspecies and believe scarlet kings are milksnakes. Then this is just another milk from Bedford County.

Ya know if you love what you do by all means keep on doing it. When you least expect some enthusiastic people will probably be very into the work you began. I know it is a bummer to have people who could be helping you sit back and be lazy about it. Regardless forget about it and enjoy your snakes and time in the field. Tom Stevens

thanks for your words of encouragement, Tom!

I think I sort of know how you feel. I used to really love E. Chain kings but after seeing alot of ugly squabbling about them it sort of quenches the thrill. Toms right though, you can't let what others do/not do ruin a fun hobby.Most of us would be keeping herps even if no one else liked them. Maybe dump the herp soc. for a while and take a breather and just try to recapture what it is you really like. Good luck.

That is a nice one! Is that your first Honduran milk?

hi! yeah, it's my first. i was looking at some small annulata at the show that a guy had. he even had a beautiful tangerine one. then, i saw this guy! fell in love with him! he looks similar to a large Mexican that i saw once. the original price was $100, but another vendor ended up buying all the guy's stuff for $1,000. i didn't have a lot of money with me, and since i knew the vendor, i got him for $50! pays to know people, huh? thanks for looking!

greg

Great deal! That one caught my eye too. He had some nice stuff, a lot of striped offspring I think. Did you see the pic of his big female? WooWee she was clean! Maybe at the next show we can hook up. I'd like to go herp hunting this spring, I've noticed some good spots close to places I fish, maybe we could swap a hunt?

yeah, i saw the female! nice!! would like to do some herping with you. keep in touch with me. my email is rickandroll1@juno.com.

greg

Greg, sorry I missed you at the Manassas show. I usually try and make it, but was not able to go this time. Beautiful Milk you picked up. We'll have to get together this spring and do a little herping. Hope all your critters are doing well, and don't give up this wonderful hobby for no one.

Steve

yeah, i saw the female! nice!! would like to do some herping with you. keep in touch with me. my email is rickandroll1@juno.com.

hi, Steve! sorry i'm so late getting back with you. hope your holidays are going well. would definitely like to get together with you next year. and thanks for your advice! talk to you soon!

greg

Greg,
Sorry to hear your experience. I sure know what you mean. As a minister I often say the Church would be a great place to work if not for people!!!! Hang in there!!!!!

Pat

Greg,

Theres someone here that has one of those crawls after their posts that says "The more people I meet the more I like my snakes" I can kind of appreciate that feeling sometimes even though I try to go in the direction of loving your neighbor as yourself ( I fail at it frequently, but I know it's the right direction for me to go). Good luck with stuff. Enjoy your animals, they can be good medicine for your sanity(Any hobby for that matter)

ha!! you know, i forgot about that crawl? it's very true! thanks for your kind words! happy holidays!

greg

lol!!! good point! it's a shame, though, isn't it? thanks for your encouragement! happy holidays!

greg