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Heres the reason for species loss, too bad developers cant get cited for poaching...

lateralis Dec 16, 2005 11:00 AM

$ talks and science walks....
It is now far more efficient to build first and pay fines later with the inflated development dollars. Wow, and they say poachers are the reason our native herps are endangered.

READ ON>>>>>>

Feds drop Sonoma habitat acreage for Calif. tiger salamanderDON THOMPSONAssociated PressSACRAMENTO - The economic impact of protecting habitat for the endangered California tiger salamader in Sonoma County cannot be justified, federal wildlife managers said Wednesday.
The decision is a reversal just since August, when the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service proposed 74,223 acres as critical habitat for the yellow-and-black amphibian. Last month the service cut the proposed protected area to 21,298 acres.
Now, the service says it will rely instead on a locally managed approach to protecting the Santa Rosa Plain population of the salamander.
The service said it ultimately decided that 17,418 acres of the plain meet the criteria for critical habitat for the salamander, but that the most crucial area already is included in the Santa Rosa Plain Conservation Strategy completed last week by local agencies.
That local plan is designed to protect the salamander and four plant species without burdening developers. It sets aside 4,000 acres in 10 different areas outside the cities of Santa Rosa, Cotati, Rohnert Park and Windsor, while allowing development on 70,000 acres included in the federal agency's original protection plan.
The service said it could again consider protecting the property if the local plan fails.
Designating the 17,418 acres as critical to the salamander's future would cost the local economy an estimated $128 million over 20 years, a price wildlife managers decided is too high.
The service said critical habitat designations do little good. Environmental groups say it sharply improves species' chances of recovery, while home builders say it slows construction of much-needed housing.
The salamander in particular has been at the forefront of that debate because of its habitat in woodlands, grasslands and vernal pools from Fresno to Santa Rosa, in areas much sought for development. Environmental groups say the amphibian has lost 75 percent of its original habitat.

Replies (11)

jrreptil Dec 16, 2005 04:09 PM

The only thing more deadly to wildlife then the Federal Government is US Fish and Wildlife Service.

joeysgreen Dec 17, 2005 02:48 AM

How much would it cost to purchase those 70,000 acres before they are developed?

Anyone with reliable numbers or contacts?... would it be worthwhile to attempt to organize a fundraiser?

Ian

lateralis Dec 17, 2005 02:36 PM

The problem is economics; tiger salamanders do not contribute to the "economic" benefit of the state.
Cheers
Latman

jfirneno Dec 18, 2005 03:46 PM

70,000 acres in Califrornia (other than desert acres) would cost between $700 million and $70 billion. That is a broad range but even at the low end of that range it would require an extraordinary number of interested people to raise that kind of cash. How many people can or will pony up the cost of real estate in CA for conservation? Most are just trying to save enough money to own one of those acres for their family.

regalringneck Dec 19, 2005 05:21 AM

...Mega-bingo...

...Pity so many folks dont get it...private land is just that..personal property. You can [within limits such as zoning] do as you please w/it...& if others dont like it..they need to buy conservation easements or the whole enchilada.

Its whats happening on OUR public lands that otta get your attention...& get your dander up...its generally not as dramatic (or personally irritating) as bulldozers pushing thru your boardlines...but it is where you have standing in the matter, & wldlf interests ought to have a ligitimate position at the table....but too often dont.

The aggie ranchers/tree cutters/miners & other commercial interests are far too important...to let non-endangered wildlife factor in & this is one of the many reasons why the ESA is so important.

Its pretty simple in concept...if you really care about herps & other wild things.....you need to become informed..then you have to insist your govt manage public lands for public purposes...most wont... & thus these issues never get heated beyond a low simmer....

jfirneno Dec 19, 2005 07:06 PM

My belief is that so much bad will has been built up on all sides of the conservation question that it will take a pretty long cooling off period before progress can be made. Hopefully the operative lesson will be learned. Namely, that you cannot leave out or scapegoat any of the important constituencies (landowners, conservation groups, industry, science) without seriously distorting policy and eventually provoking a reaction.

But such are the times that we live in.

lateralis Dec 19, 2005 12:42 PM

They better keep saving!LOL, you can get a nice DOT cabin on an acre or two outside of Amboy or 29palms for around 70K I believe. Development on private property is a legal activity under the auspices of CEQA and NEPA and therefore will prevail. Likely what will occur is the same thing that happened here, coastal folks sold out, made a pile of money then moved to our area and drove the cost of living through the roof. 3 years ago the median price was 150k now its over 400k, and you have an infrastructure that was never meant to deal with the number of people that moved here. Its like living on the coast again only theres no ocean.

Regal, is that shot from SCR? VERY NICE!

regalringneck Dec 20, 2005 06:10 AM

...g-morn-n;

Jeez your own piece of hell for 70k...whats next (truth is tho..I like it out by the SheepHoles....)!

The other thing I wanted to mention is development doesnt have to mean the deathknell for wildlf...if its properly planned....which cali which tends to be progressive & insist on...sometimes!

Yes thats a fine early AM view of the Conservation Area in fall splendour

Posted by: lateralis at Mon Dec 19 12:42:54 2005 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

They better keep saving!LOL, you can get a nice DOT cabin on an acre or two outside of Amboy or 29palms for around 70K I believe. Development on private property is a legal activity under the auspices of CEQA and NEPA and therefore will prevail. Likely what will occur is the same thing that happened here, coastal folks sold out, made a pile of money then moved to our area and drove the cost of living through the roof. 3 years ago the median price was 150k now its over 400k, and you have an infrastructure that was never meant to deal with the number of people that moved here. Its like living on the coast again only theres no ocean.

Regal, is that shot from SCR? VERY NICE!

lateralis Dec 20, 2005 07:45 PM

Theys some sheep sign right next to the 15 in a place I know, some migration corridor perhaps...

Ciao Pescado

ratsnakehaven Dec 18, 2005 07:40 PM

...and our local group called, The Little Traverse Conservancy, in Northern Michigan. It covers five counties comprising about 4400 sq.mi. About 26,000 acres, 39 sq.mi, are protected, or less than 1% of the land, at a cost of about $87,000,000.

A lot of people care about the land/habitat, and are the ones paying to protect it. It's a tough battle though, because the developers are powerful, and spend millions every year to buy new land. The bottom line is economics, as stated before, and if we save anything, it's the citizens that will have to pay for it. So, fight the fight, and contribute what you can

TC

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Ratsnake Haven...researching ratsnakes since 1988

Ratsnake Haven Group...an information providing list site.

regalringneck Dec 20, 2005 06:13 AM

....think globally n act locally...it works!

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