Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello, My babies have some serious problems going on. I need some advice please.
I have several (4) chameleons of 3 different breeds (2 Ambloibe, Nosey Be, Tamative) that won't open their eyes. To explain further. The one pictured is the worst. She never opens them unless she gets stressed out ( putting medacine on them), then she bulges them way out and around in circles, the outer skin turns purple, and basically she looks as if they are going to come right out of her head. I have even caught her scraping them on branches on purpose. The others don't do the whole bulging routine. They just don't have them open all the time. There does NOT appear to be any type of eye discharge or crusting.
All are on a Rainmaker Jr misting for 1 minute 14X a day.
All have repti glo 8.0
All have a 75 watt bulb.
Live Ficus and fake vines.
Suppliments are :
Wild Eye Reptile gutload-along with apples and carrots for feeders.
Sticky Tongue Farms Miner-All dusted daily.
We feed crickets,mealie worms,super worms,wax worms,and silk worms.
Once a week they get dusted - Rep Cal Calcium with Vit D3.
Once a week they get dusted - Sandfire Super Foods- Chameleon Dust ICB.
Once a week added to thir mister they get -Electrod3ize.

They are all 4 housed differently.
1 is in a 24X24X36 pre fab open air, 3 sides plastic wrapped.
1 is in a 18X18X24 pre fab open air, 3 sides plastic wrapped.
2 are together in a 24X24X30 custom built pine wood open air,3 sides plastic wrapped.

They where all taken to the vet and given:
X rays, results where no bones deficentcies.
Stool samples, results where no parasites or bacteria found.
I was given a tube of Terramiacin to apply daily to the eyes.
I was told to increase the Vit A and D3 Calcium dusting for 1 week to daily.
I did that 2 weeks ago. Two have gotten better and are now mostly keeping their eyes open.One appears to be starting to do a little better. The pictured one seems to be getting worse.
Today the vet reccomended I do the increase in dusting again for another week.I have no other local options of other vets that are experienced in chameleons.
Anyone have any ideas? Thanks in advance!

..

another

eyes bulging

Doing More bulging

Closed, starting to turn purple

Closed and now very purple

Just closed

I almost forgot. Day temp is 76-78, humidity 65-75%, night temp 62-65.

Hey,

First of all, as Will said remove the waterfalls. If you have a misting system they are useless anyway. While like Will said, each cham does not have it's own water fall at the bottom of their tree, where there are waterfalls it is thousands, or even millions of gallons of water, not half a gallon like you waterfalls. So it is very different. Also, I saw that you keep your misting systems on for 1 minute 14x a day. I am guessing this is a typo, but I will address it anyway. Chameleons need water in duration. Many breeders keep it on for 1 minute for 3 times a day. If you want to go more than this, raise them up to 2 mins for 3 times a day. You should not need it more than this.

This is something I wrote a couple posts back, a day or so ago. I am just copying and pasting cause I have a headache, lol.

Here are the probable things it is:

1.) Respritory infection- This is the most likely cause. This is normally caused from having the chameleon constantly breathing stagnant air, i.e. having them in a tank or having very poor ventilation(in your case, having 3 sides covered in plastic wrap. Put him in a screen cage to prevent this prob from happening again, without any sort of plastic around it, or atleast leave the front, back and top open. You will have to bring him to the vet for this. If they do have this, they will have very thick saliva and even bubbles in the back of their throat. Open their mouths and take a look.

2.) Parasites- I don't have time to discuss the different types of reptile parasites, causes and treatments right now. However, this is a definite possibility. Simply wait for your animal to deficate and bring it to the vet within the next few hours (within 24 hours I believe). He will examine it under a microscope and perscribe meds from there.

Eyes are ussually the first sign that a chameleon has a problem. Chances are they have had problems for a long time without you knowing. Animals don't show signs when they first get sick. If they did, the predators would know to catch them first cause they are an easy catch. They do not show signs until they are far along, and the sickness has manifested throughout the chameleons body for a while. You will have to bring it to a vet either way(again). Find a vet that will deal with exotics, ask him if he has any experience with chameleons, and after calling a bunch, pic the best and schedule an appointment ASAP!!! *****In your case, just make sure that the vet knows what he is doing.*****

Well, why are you still reading this thing!!! Go find a vet!!!

Feel free to post any other questions you have here.

Ank-Inc.
Adam.

P.S.- It is spelled chameleon, not cameleon.

Adam, yes. I wrote such a long post. I guess trying to think of everything frazzled my proof read. I meant to say it is on 1 minute 4 times a day.

First, settle down on the posting. No one will take you seriously. Second, find out how to post multiple photos correctly. Forums take time, I'm glad you saw the vet before posting, but this isn't a live chat, be patient.

On to the important matter. These are things you need to do.

Remove those waterfalls right away. They are easily deadly to chameleons despite advertising and marketing photos show you. Do you think each chameleon has their own waterfall at the bottom of their tree in Madagascar? Not a chance. Chameleons tend to poo in running water, they also drink running water. Weather you are seeing this happen, it is happening. You cannot clean theose waterfalls enough to keep them clean either.

Take of the plastic wrap. They need airflow, find an alternative. If you placed it on the back to prevent water from splashing the walls, move it away from them, or find an alternat method, buy hanging a sheet on the wall. Move the cages apart, maybe 12" and place a visual bariear like a peice of board. Let it slant between the cages or prop it up, just allow airflow!

I didn't even touch on all the possibilies of the problems source, so I will hand it off to others.
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CANADIAN CHAMELEONS

After reading the post It sounds as if I am angry. I'm not, just concerned. Don't be offended.
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CANADIAN CHAMELEONS

I should be offended! You just called me the "essay guy" on the instant messenger!!! I don't know whether or not to take that as a compliment or a put-down!!! GRRRRRRRRRRRRR........

Ank-Inc.
Adam.

Go check you cages adam... I just stole Goliath!

You just ruined the thread.
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CANADIAN CHAMELEONS

help? Sorry if I seem a bother, I was told this was the best place to seek out help. I just wanted to know what "might" be wrong with them. I didn't think I would just get bombarded with issues about my husbandry.Although I didn't rule it out. That is why I posted the pictures. Just so you know it took me about an hour to take crop upload pics and post this thread. I've had most of these guys for going on 4 years and was doing really good until now. They are like my children. I am really concerned about them. So, if there are no bubbles and ni saliva, now what? I have yahoo messanger also, if that would make it easier to kick questions and answers back and forth.

I won't lie, I was offended. First only 4 have waterfalls, and none of those 4 are the sick ones. Unfortunatly they are my first babies and what I started with, I have never been able to get them to drink any other way, so I do my best in cleaning them daily. Although it might scream "bacteria" to you...I have never had any problems with those 4. They are huge and healthy. Knock on wood.
The plastic.....I was unable to keep the humidity levels up in the winter untill I started to plastic the cages...seasonally. It gets my humidity up, and like above. Noone has had "eye problems" in direct relation as to when I did it. It got cold here in September.I could see how you might say it takes time for the upper respitory to come on. Ok.
But, this brings me to the last thing I checked, no thick saliva, no bubbles.
I forgot on my post she also did blood samples, there was no abnormal levels detected. She was basically clueless as to what it might be. Seeings how there isn't another vet in town, I have no second opinion. I had posted what she told me to do when I called her today.
Sorry about all the replies to post the pictures. I DID read the messages about muliple post pics, but I found it uninformative. It says to click the multiple post button. Well, mine simply doesnt have a multiple pics button. I just wanted to make sure there where adiquate photos for someone to base an opinion on.Again, sorry. I didn't relize someone would find that upsetting.

Hey,

The fact of the matter is, that waterfalls will cause problems. Maybe not yet, but you would be surprised how fast things can change. I would remove them if I were you. But hey, they are your chams. Keep them how you see best.....

I would definetly have them checked for parasites. There is a good chance that parasites is the problem.

Also, I would keep the plastic off year round if I were you. If you are using live plants, and have a misting system, there should be no need for it.

Ank-Inc.
Adam.

Here is my best chameleon christmas pic..... red and green.

Adam, Awsome Cam Pic.....You win!
I have taken those stupid waterfalls out several times, only to find them roaming the bottom of the cage where they once where (how they got down there I will never know). Then they have literally gotten dehydrated. They just refuse to drink any other way. Every time I have stood my ground and theyre puffy heads start to sink I gine in.. I hate those nasty waterfalls. If I could just find a way to get them to drink, they'de be in the trash FOREVER!
The plastic is very loose, again I cant seem to find an alternative shy of moving south. Which I plan on doing in 5 years, but for now....I can't get the humidity levels above 42-46% without it. Do you have any other ideas? I have 1 or 2 plants per cage as well as 6 other plants cagless in the room. Window is double pane, and plasticed, and 2 blanket hung. I've even stood around with the trusty squirt bottle till my hand hurt and never got it above 46 in the winter months.
I am open for suggestions!

I'm sorry you were offended, especially after I immediately apologized stating it was accidental wording of my reply. You shouldn't have been.

I wasn't upset by the photos, but I'm positive that people would see it as spamming, even if unintentional, and they might be less likely to reply. The reason you have no option to select the photos you want to post, is because they need to be uploaded onto the kingsnake servers through the link above in the "Photo Gallery"

As for the waterfalls, being that you posted THAT photo in your message with the explanation of concerns, you can understand why I thought that they were the affected chameleon's cages. I don't understand why they are necessary though. The wrapping either. Up the frequency of misting possibly? Just a suggestion.

I'm in Canada and I have to mist 8 times a day for between 1-4 minutes because its dryer than Sahara here in the winter.

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CANADIAN CHAMELEONS

But I hope to never have to use it again. All the pictures are different that I posted. Anyhow, I had just replied to adam, I have tried uping the misting, it just didn't work. I don't know maybe it's the guage.
Also it was mentioned about the fecal sample. She did do that and there where no parasites found..........

Hey,

If you want to speak in yahoo messenger, my sn is mantis8944. Hope to talk to ya soon.

Ank-Inc.
Adam.

The good news is that everyone looks better today. Even the one pictured has one eye open. The bad news is she has diahrea.
I called the vet today to ask her to come out, and I was on 1/2 hr poop patrol for fecal samples.I mentioned to her about the parasites as well as a URI that where mentioned here.
She said that the diahrea was a sign of long worm maybe. But she can't come over until Monday.............booooo. Anyhow she said she would test the samples again for parasites, and that she would examine them for URI. But she said that bubbles and heavy saliva is a sign of a lower res. infection? Not an upper?
Makes me wonder what she even did when I dropped them off before.....
Also I removed 2 sides of the plastic and propped pieces of that white sheet foam packing stuff (the kind we used to insulate shipping boxes)between the cages so no one is doing the stand off ay dusk.

I'm wading in late on this, but a couple of things struck me. Are all these chams really babies? I wasn't clear about that. The fact that all are having the same problem despite being in different setups seems to point to a climatic problem like low humidity. I wasn't sure whether you gave the range of cage humidity the setups are reaching. In winter with house heating chams can get dehydrated really fast, and dehydration is probably the most common reason for eye problems. Chams lose a lot of moisture just breathing if the air is dry. They don't have the moisture conserving nasal structure reptiles who live in dry conditions do. If the humidity cycles rather than stays constantly high, you should not need to take your back plastic off the cages to provide more air flow. I routinely have plastic on one or two sides of cages and don't have problems with URIs. It is a delicate balance keeping cages humidified enough to avoid dehydrating chams and avoiding stagnant stuffy high humidity conditions. Letting the humidity cycle from high to lower several times a day, lots of live plants, spraying for drinking and simulating rain for cleaning eyes seems to be a key.

You are giving a lot of calcium...the Mineral, the other calcium, plus increasing it as suggested by the vet? Seems like a lot to me. You can overdose calcium. The ReptiGlo light may not be producing the amount of UVB you think. ReptiSun 5.0 are a safe way to produce a good amount for daily exposure. Be really really careful with vit. A. Yes, vit A deficiencies can cause eye problems, but it is very easy to overdose.

Also, a respiratory infection that has moved into the lungs tends to show with noisy heavy breathing, sticky saliva and bubbling in the mouth, not eating or drinking, crouching under the heat spot showing a dark color (they never seem to get warmed up). Also, when the cham is sitting quiet or asleep, they tend to sit with their snout pointed straight up and bulge out their gular (throat) area over and over, gaping (not gaping at you or if too hot) and gulping. Hope this helps!