Reptile & Amphibian Forums

What is the youngest and oldest ages for breeding eastern indigos. Also who has the oldest eastern indigos now in captivity who is still breeding them?

I personally would never consider breeding any of my indigos prior to them reaching the four year mark; some folks breed much earlier but I think that this is NOT good for the snake (particularly females....males can go at the 2-3 year mark w/out any problems). Size and weight are also very important indicators for a particular animal's readiness to breed.

In terms of age, that is a bit more difficult to say as there is not a lot of literature on this subject. I personally have a 12 year old female who shows no signs of slowing down. BUT, I will also say that I never breed my females more than once every three years which is why I have enjoyed some success with this species. Too many people rush breeding, overbreed their females, and, in the end, produce inferior animals who pass on weak bloodlines; that only does this species a great disservice.

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
Lake Forest, IL

>>What is the youngest and oldest ages for breeding eastern indigos. Also who has the oldest eastern indigos now in captivity who is still breeding them?
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

I guess in the wild when a female is ready she is ready. In most cases they probably develop at a slower rate. Im sure in some instances where there is an abundant food supply a female will sometimes mature in say two years? Would you say her growth will be stunted if bred early? Would you say a depleated vitamins due to yearly breeding is the root cause for weak offspring? What is the biological reason they get two years off? By the way I am in agreement with what you said I just want to understand the science behind the decission and then I will give my theory.

Drymarchon corais ssp.
Cribo Or Indigo
LIT.a 9 Years. Female, acquired date unknown as an adult. Wild bred. Deceased. At PHIP, in Bowler 1977.

Drymarchon corais corais
Yellow-tailed Cribo
PPHC 12 Years, 3 Months. Female, acquired 02/11/74. Died 06/08/86.
LIT.a 5 Years, 1 Month. Gender unknown, acquired date unknown as an adult. Wild bred. Deceased. At COLO, in Bowler 1977.

Drymarchon corais couperi
Eastern Indigo Snake
LIT.a 25 Years, 11 Months. Gender unknown, acquired date unknown. Wild bred. Deceased. John Moore, in Bowler 1977.
PPDI 14 Years. Gender unknown, acquired 01/03/74. Last reported 1988.
WOOW ID # 111337 12 Years. Female, acquired 07/16/80 as an adult. Wild bred. Died 08/05/92.
TRAS 11 Years, 10 Months. Female, acquired 02/27/76 as a juvenile. Wild bred. Deceased.
CHII 10 Years, 10 Months. Female, acquired 11/28/63 as an adult. Wild bred. Died 10/17/74.
PPEI 10 Years. Female, acquired 01/01/77 as a juvenile. Captive bred. Last reported 1987.
CHII 0 Years, 10 Months. Male, acquired 04/29/75 as an adult. Wild bred. Died 03/07/76.

Drymarchon corais erebennus
Texas Indigo Snake
GLAT ID # S01107 10 Years, 2 Months. Female, acquired 10/15/87 as an adult. Still living.
PPHC 9 Years, 5 Months. Female, acquired 12/08/75. Died 06/06/85. 5 yrs. in previous collection.

Drymarchon corais melanurus
Black-tailed Cribo
LIT.e 9 Years. Female, acquired date unknown as an adult. Wild bred. Deceased. At PHIP in Snider 1992.
LABM ID # 1 3 Years, 4 Months. Gender unknown, acquired 08/05/85 as an adult. Wild bred. Last reported 1989.

Drymarchon corais rubidus
Mexican West Coast Cribo
LIT.a 11 Years, 7 Months. Gender unknown, acquired date unknown as a juvenile. Wild bred. Deceased. Kenneth Johnson, in Bowler 1977.

i'll be the first to enter my ignorance on this one.

my guess is that these are citations from a zoological record and the abbreviations are particular zoos? "Bowler 1977" must be a published account, but in which journal?

bill, can you lend some assistance please, or am i the only dunce here?

thanks,

matt

I believe the data indicated was derived from Frank and Kate's website:

www.pondturtle.com/lsnake.html

While the data contained within the report represents only a few specimens of each genus, it is perhaps the most comprehensive collection regarding longevity of its kind, that I am aware of anyhow...

Best regards,

Jeff
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Jeff Snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.603.1947

236 INSTITUTIONS
425 PRIVATE COLLECTIONS
661 TOTAL REPORTING

Yes it is from Frank and Kates data base.

Breeding Couperi females:My suggestion is to WAIT until they hit the 4 year mark and gain some length and girth to them(6-7 ft).

Breeding Couperi Males: I would and have bred them at the three year mark with no dire consequences.

Longevity: My oldest Eastern Indigo was the infamous "Cadillac" who died at the age of 20 years documented. He produced his last clutch of offspring when he was 18 years of age(So much for the myth that old guys cant do it!)The fertility level of the last clutch was MUCH lower than his previous breeding attempts however. Many of his offspring are still floating around and are themselves getting ready to reproduce now.

Sincerely,

Fred Albury

Fred there seems to be one record of an eastern that lived to 25 years eleven months? See above stats.

Hey Fred !

Eric here in San Francisco.

First, I'm truly glad you made it through your recent health challenges. Very good to see you around here on the forum still!

I'm not on this forum much, (sometimes just lurking).

I bought my friend "Spike" from you back in (wait a minute, just pulling out my receipt here...) October 2001 ! He is HUGE ! (Was he by any chance from "Cadillac's" bloodline ? ) I will post a picture of him soon. He is a "red-throat", although not remarkably red-colored, still a really magnificent specimen.

I bought a female a couple months later-locally- and she's still only a third his size. I'm beginning to think I might not ever be able to breed them together. Unless she ever "catches" up to him in size. There's clearly a difference in vigor. Though she's healthy and beautiful, she just didn't grow in bounds like he did. (Same frequency of feeding, just smaller product, but close to same bulk though-go figure !. Besides just my concern re: breeding them safely, I also wonder if the bloodline is somehow "dwarfed" (I've seen some cryptic discussions on this topic here before) and if it would be wise to pass this on if it is an inheritable trait, or if "Spike's" vigor could somehow strengthen her genes (if that truly is the case) ?

Safe & Happy Holidays to all...