Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I thought someone might find this interesting. I always enjoy seeing how others exercise their creativity and come up with new ideas that work.

These photos are from a fellow in Germany who has been keeping/breeding snakes for 30 years and has come up with this simple system that gives him a near 100% hatch rate. He uses damp foam pieces in his lay boxes (reusable) and aquarium filter media in his egg boxes for incubation. His closed egg boxes are filled with aquarium filter media and water is added to a level of about 1/2" in the bottom, eggs remaining well above the water. This gives him a dry substrate in a 90-100% humid environment.

It does keep things squeaky clean, and the idea of having a reusable lay box material is a welcome thought. Have a look and share your thoughts.....

that looks to be a great method.

...is the foam. Maybe a guy could buy himself a few bundles of those super cheap sponges that you can get a dozen for a buck or two, chop 'em up and use as a moss replacement in wet hides as well as egg laying boxes. I rinse my moss and reuse several times, but the stuff eventually wears out and needs to be replaced. Sponge or foam material could last who knows how many years? Maybe another way to save a little money.

Mike

is it looks to be a ultra-modern techniqe, and this hobby can always use improvements, that german has some very nice pits who is he?

Here's the english version of his site:

http://www.pinesnake.de/english/stammseite.html

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I used to keep a couple of saltwater aquariums going. I would stay away from normal sponges (just my oppinion). The "sponges" used for aquariums aren't really sponges but a material that catches solids. They dont necassarily soak up water but allow it to pass through. The reason I say this is if you use it it will remain dry on top and wet below to allow for high humidity without the eggs actually being in direct contact with moisture. I think this is a great suggestion and will try it with my next clutch of Florida King eggs since I lost my '05 clutch to moisture overload.

Miller
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1.1 Florida King ('02 Pit & '00 Pearl)
1.1 Eastern Kings (2004 Orca & Sugar Pie)
1.0 Black Milksnake (2005 Bubba)
1.0 Chow Chow (2003 Papi)
0.2 Cats (Stella and Shug)

...as far as incubating is concerned. I kept aquariums myself a few years back and I know what you refer to. The filter sponge material you mention, as well as the fiber material for filtration this person uses for incubation are non-porous materials and wouldn't hold and release too much moisture at its surface. It provides him with a control barrier between his moisture source and the egg. He uses sealed egg boxes for incubation which gives him the humidity, and opens the boxes occasionally for an air exchange.

Personally I prefer using well ventilated egg boxes (lid on) in a humid incubator so I don't have to mess with things for an air exchange or add moisture, and have had good luck with vermiculite or perlite mixed until it's almost damp enough to begin clumping while mixing... but not quite wet enough to clump together. The eggs get the moisture they need but aren't sitting on a wet surface and I don't have to mess with them at all until they hatch.

I wouldn't consider using the normal type sponge material I mentioned for egg incubation, but it sure looks interesting for use in an egg laying box or a damp hide for hydration purposes.

Mike

i dont know if i missed something or didnt read it right but what do i heat it with? i have a whole bunch of sponges that were used for the airconditioner if it leaked water. great idea and greater for me. i just need to know what to heat it with, will heat tape under the bottom work good?
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Nick Nack Patty Wack Break Your Pet Rats Back

Kevin

Sorry that I don't quite understand your question, what are you wanting to heat?

Mike

wow....what is this topic about??? obviously it is the incubator i want to heat

...this thing's going in the wrong direction! It's not about trying to teach anyone how to incubate eggs, it's about someone experienced that does things a little differently and opinions on the methods. And it's not about him incubating eggs on sponges.

Start from the beginning and re-read the original post. The egg laying boxes and the boxes the eggs are incubated in are two entirely different things. The egg laying box is placed in the female's enclosure prior to oviposition and she uses it to lay her clutch of eggs. This fellow (the German gentleman) uses pieces of foam in his egg laying boxes. The eggs are then removed from the egg laying box and placed in the container they are to be incubated in. This fellow uses fiber aquarium filter media in his incubation boxes, not foam or sponges. This container that the eggs are to be incubated in, is then placed into his (the German gentleman) incubator.

Now... to heat your incubator, most of us just plug them in!

Of course, if you have a spot in your home that maintains between say... 75 and 82 degrees give or take a degree here and there... you don't need an incubator. Kingsnake eggs will hatch out with the egg box just sitting on a shelf in those temps.

Sorry if the thread became confusing.

Mike

..yea I have never provided a damp hide but because I could not think of an acceptabel medium (to me) but now I think I will purchase a few or those sea sponges people sale for the bath and try that. should make for easy use and clean up.

Miller
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1.1 Florida King ('02 Pit & '00 Pearl)
1.1 Eastern Kings (2004 Orca & Sugar Pie)
1.0 Black Milksnake (2005 Bubba)
1.0 Chow Chow (2003 Papi)
0.2 Cats (Stella and Shug)

Interesting, however perlite will accomplish the same thing as the mechanical filtratation media (filter pads) when used as incubation medium. I have been using perlite exclusively for several years because I think it allows much greater control of the level of moisture that contacts the eggs. It works totally different than vermiculite because it doesn not absorb much moisture, like vermic does. Perlite allows the majority of the moisture to collect below the eggs thereby keeping them very humid, but not wet at all. This seems like a technique based on the same principle, but I think you might be able to get a big bag of perlite for the price of a couple of filter pads. Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Will

Thanks for the reply Will, more in line with what I was hoping for. It certainly was interesting to see, but honestly I'm not nearly as interested in this filter material system for incubation as I am the use of the foam in the nest boxes.

I understand what you tell me about how perlite handles moisture. I've only used it once, however I did notice that it doesn't retain as much moisture and allows excess to drain off to the bottom of the egg box. I tested a method similar to the filter fiber idea this year with a couple clutches and wasn't happy with it. It involved placing the eggs on a plastic grate that held them above the water, basically the same principle. What I didn't like about what I experienced with this, is that in order to maintain enough humidity to keep the eggs hydrated it was necessary to use a completely closed egg box with no ventilation such as this fellow does with his filter fiber, and I'm just not crazy about having to open things up just to allow fresh air in. For someone who incubates on a shelf in a warm room with a closed system or in a dry incubator, and enjoys fanning the eggs once in a while it may not be such a bad method but you're absolutely right about cost. Perlite is just as affordable if not more so in most cases. The only thing I see that I like about the filter material approach is that it keeps the babies clean which isn't really much of an issue.

Now the foam pieces in the nest box... I kinda like the idea. It would be very easy to remove the clutch of eggs, they would be clean and the foam material could be used many many times. Initially it wouldn't be any cheaper than the sphagnum I use, but eventually it would be, because it would last for a heck of a long time. I just wonder how easy/difficult it would be to keep clean.

Mike