Reptile & Amphibian Forums

The last "update" pic I posted was taken while the snake was in the blue. They have both since shed and I decided to take another pic, outside with no flash. This is the result. The purple flagstone is leftover from our pool coping. I like it, alot of people do not Anyway, the pic is of the Ember and Ember mom. The adult female pic was taken inside with a flash, that did kind of wash her colors out.

looks like a regular pastel to me. or is she named ember? either way you havea nice snake.
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Nick Nack Patty Wack Break Your Pet Rats Back

Kevin

It is not a Pastel. The adult female in the pics is her mother, and the father was a Bell line Orange Ghost. She is either a Fire or Dom/Co-Dom Hypo, or, maybe a Vanilla or something new.

Dave

oh ok if u say so but it looks like a pastel still to me. nice looking snake though i hope she gets big and makes babies for you. later.
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Nick Nack Patty Wack Break Your Pet Rats Back

Kevin

dont worry about the kids here. Best of luck with that project Dayve. Cant wait to see what comes from the back breeding.

Keep us posted

Experienced only? You posted pictures a while down of a completely normal belly asking if it was out of the ordinary. Would you be allowed to enter this site? Sorry, I don't think I get it...

In one of the pictures, the snake does look a little like a pastel - you can't say it's just because Uberkid is young.
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Ryan Farris

PS, I wasnt asking anything. I know its normal. Just like the mother of this snake was normal. Just like the mother of the Crystal Ball was normal. Just like yellow bellies were normal until proven out. You want experience, I sold my first ball python 18 years ago and I still dont know crap!

I was wanting some more pics of nice looking NORMALS!!!!!!!!

You have any?

there is an old saying uberkid
it is better to remain silent and have people think you are a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
is your snake evens still alive? what happened with the respiratory and shed problems?
and you bother to criticize others.
why dont you go out and play with a rattler

I produced and have several ball pythons that look like your ember.
I know it's difficult to photograph and show the uniqueness of some of these "nice looking normals," and other cool new progect animals without seeing them in person.
Look forward to some comparison shots.

This is the only pic I have of the Ember next to a normal. I think this is a pre first shed pic of the Ember, the color got more vivid once they shed. Ember top left, Mojave cross top right, and normal below them.

I have seen your posts all along, and i have to say i am a fan of the snake. It has amazing color and the head pattern is awesome. I think she may be the key to something. Keep going with it (not that you were going to drop it) I can see the difference i the pics defently nt a pastel. I do see where your coming from with the fires. As for everyone else, ball python politics suck!1 everyones a critic . Good luck in the future with it and keep us posted.
KIM

The head pattern is one of the key traits of the Fire. If you look on Constrictors Unlimited's site, and look at the Fire pics, they have a distinct pattern on the head, similar, if not exactly like the Ember's pattern. Fires also have a distinct line running parallel to the spine, separating a brown/peach color on the sides, from the lighter lemon yellows on the top. The brown/peach color has an obvious granite look too. I just need to prove them out with a nice white snake with black eyes. I am also very excited to see what a Hypo Ember will look like.

Pic one is the father of the Embers, with a normal
Pic two is the mother of the Ember
Pic three is the Ember with two Mojaves

NOTE: Niether Parent is a Pastel

np

Just looking for opinions.

I should probabaly get some outdoor pics too, natural lighting shows off the colors so well. She's actually more yellow and you can see the blushing better in natural light.

Mark

I think it has some nice coloring! It has a very clean look to it. What are you going to breed it too? Might make some nice Mojaves or Spiders.

Dave

I'm a few years away from breeding it to anything. But the reason I ask is because it also has many of the supposed markings for fireballs, at least according to written descriptions. It has the head markings the bright color and the blushing. I also have other animals that have the same traits. Personally I doubt that it is and in any case it would take many years to prove one way or the other. But mainly I'm curious as to why you're 99% sure that yours IS a fire? Is it because you're proven that whatever you have is an inheritable trait where you've been able to produce offspring that have many of the same markings as the mother? Are there any other reasons other then looks? After all, I'd like to know if I have a fireball too.

Mark

>>I think it has some nice coloring! It has a very clean look to it. What are you going to breed it too? Might make some nice Mojaves or Spiders.
>>
>>Dave

Why I am 99% sure the Embers are a line of Fires. The unknown adult female is a Hypo looking snake that I have been told by more than one person is a Fire. Not that she resembles, or looks like, or is a wannabe Fire, but IS a Fire. The Embers themselves have all the characteristics that I know to look for in a baby Fire. Not just some, but ALL. The Fire looking female produced Fire looking offspring...

OK, so could the Embers be a Pastel line? No, the sire is a Ghost, and the female looks nothing like a Pastel, so that rules out a Pastel.

OK, so could the Embers be a Hypo line? Possible, but very doubtful. NERD said the Embers looked like a Dom or Co Dom morph, and said straight up that they did not look like a Hypo-simple recessive hypo. If you look at the pic of the Hypo and Ember, you can see the difference.

So, that leaves Fire or Dom/Co Dom Hypos, or something new.

But what makes mine NOT a fireball? I'm still not seeing your reasoning.

>>Why I am 99% sure the Embers are a line of Fires. The unknown adult female is a Hypo looking snake that I have been told by more than one person is a Fire. Not that she resembles, or looks like, or is a wannabe Fire, but IS a Fire. The Embers themselves have all the characteristics that I know to look for in a baby Fire. Not just some, but ALL. The Fire looking female produced Fire looking offspring...
>>
>>OK, so could the Embers be a Pastel line? No, the sire is a Ghost, and the female looks nothing like a Pastel, so that rules out a Pastel.
>>
>>OK, so could the Embers be a Hypo line? Possible, but very doubtful. NERD said the Embers looked like a Dom or Co Dom morph, and said straight up that they did not look like a Hypo-simple recessive hypo. If you look at the pic of the Hypo and Ember, you can see the difference.
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>>So, that leaves Fire or Dom/Co Dom Hypos, or something new.
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>>
>>
>>
>>

I hate to answer a question with a question, but what makes you think that it is a Fire? It does not look like my adult female, and does not look like the Embers...my conclusion would be that it would not be a Fire. BUT, breed her and prove her out one way or the other. There were people that thought my females would prove out to be normals...

Dave

I DON'T happen to think my female is a fireball. On the other hand, I don't see where you can claim YOURS are either. They may have some similarities in looks but they are NOT from a proven line, in fact as far as I know there is only one proven line.

There are other look alike lines out there that have NOT been proven to produce white snakes (ie the dominant hypos). Maybe some of them will, but some of them appear to have proven NOT to produce leusistic snakes. (for instance Tom Carltons Thunder and lightning balls, like I mentioned previously) Quite frankly, until you can PROVE that your line is compatible with the existing line of fireballs, I think it's misleading to imply that they are the same thing. (and yes, saying that you are "99% sure" is a pretty strong implication).

Ember ball is a fine name, why not stick with that and forget about the fireballs? I guess I'm not even sure WHY you want these to prove out to be fireballs when they could just as easily prove to be something completely new. To me, something completely new would be much more exciting.

BTW thank you for the discussion. It's been very interesting.

Mark

>>I hate to answer a question with a question, but what makes you think that it is a Fire? It does not look like my adult female, and does not look like the Embers...my conclusion would be that it would not be a Fire. BUT, breed her and prove her out one way or the other. There were people that thought my females would prove out to be normals...
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>>Dave

Before this gets out of hand -

He is not saying its a Fire - so why jump all over him about "thinking" it is? I do not think it looks like a pastel - I do think it looks like a Fire - whether or not it proves to be we will have wait to see. In the mean time he can all it whatever he likes whether it turns out to be a Fire, Hypo, new Pastel or whatever - he has the right to name it what he likes and speculate on what it might be. Might just end up bing a very nice looking high gold normal!

And no - going by the picture you posted I wouldn't say that snake is yellow enough to be a fire - but maybe it's just a bad photo - beautiful snake tho.

Anyway - breed it - prove it - slap a name on it - and call it a day!
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer

Two points Tosha,

1.) yes he is implying that it is a fireball.

2.) Nobody 'jumped all over him'

Sounds like someone needs a visit from the hyperbole police.

Mark

>>Before this gets out of hand -
>>
>>He is not saying its a Fire - so why jump all over him about "thinking" it is? I do not think it looks like a pastel - I do think it looks like a Fire - whether or not it proves to be we will have wait to see. In the mean time he can all it whatever he likes whether it turns out to be a Fire, Hypo, new Pastel or whatever - he has the right to name it what he likes and speculate on what it might be. Might just end up bing a very nice looking high gold normal!
>>
>>And no - going by the picture you posted I wouldn't say that snake is yellow enough to be a fire - but maybe it's just a bad photo - beautiful snake tho.
>>
>>Anyway - breed it - prove it - slap a name on it - and call it a day!
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>>Tosha
>>
>>"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"
>>
>>
>>
>>7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
>>1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
>>0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
>>0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
>>0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
>>2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
>>0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer

I guess my point was, that he is NOT misrepresenting the snake - and he can theorize/imply/whatever up the yin yang what he thinks the end result will be but until hes proven it one way or another it's simply an Ember.
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer

Mark, I have gone over this before somewhere in this long @$$ post, but here it goes. I think it is a Fire Ball based on the appearance of the female and the babies, numerous conversations, emails and comparing them in pics. Simple as that. I proved the female genetic, now what she is for sure is still up in the air, but I did not just see the adult female and call her a Fire. I will continue to breed the babies and the adult female again, hopefully this year, to prove out my "educated guess", that they are indeed a line of Fires. I will keep the Ember Ball name, no matter what. If they turn out to be Lightnings, Vanillas, or Fires, or something new, it really does not matter to me. I was just stoked that the third and fourth Ball python EVER to hatch at my place, turned out to be something cool.

I agree that it is very cool to hatch something like that. And it is a very exciting project and I hope that something really great comes from it. I just think that a little more caution is called for when making comparisons between something new and an existing project. The only way you can REALLY say that it's a fireball is to breed your ember to a fireball and produce a black eyed white snake. There are no shortcuts.

Personally, if I were you, I'd be hoping that it turns out to be something else. Not that producing your own line of Leucistic snakes wouldn't be great, it's just that there are already a lot of ways to make a white snake.

Well, whatever happens, best of luck to you.

Mark

>>Mark, I have gone over this before somewhere in this long @$$ post, but here it goes. I think it is a Fire Ball based on the appearance of the female and the babies, numerous conversations, emails and comparing them in pics. Simple as that. I proved the female genetic, now what she is for sure is still up in the air, but I did not just see the adult female and call her a Fire. I will continue to breed the babies and the adult female again, hopefully this year, to prove out my "educated guess", that they are indeed a line of Fires. I will keep the Ember Ball name, no matter what. If they turn out to be Lightnings, Vanillas, or Fires, or something new, it really does not matter to me. I was just stoked that the third and fourth Ball python EVER to hatch at my place, turned out to be something cool.

Use caution how? I am not selling them as Fires, I did not state they were Fires for financial gain, I simply stated how I concluded my weeks of research. And you are incorrect stating that the only way to prove them Fires is to breed an Ember to a Fire and produce a Lucy. I can breed an Ember to an Ember, and if I produce a Black eyed Lucy, that would be good enough for me. Breeding an Ember to my Mojave cross and producing Black eyed Lucies would do the same thing.

Dave

this is the thread that never ends yes it goes on and on my friends some people started typing it not knowing what it was and they'll continue typing it forever just because this is the tread that never ends......lol
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2.1.0 ball python (aragorn, frodo, arwen)
2.0.0 columbian boa (wiggles and squiggles)
1.0.0 rat snake (alabastered)
0.1.0 corn snake (baby)
3.3.0 cats (rockie, bs, brownie, lerrado, kole, camie)
1.3.0 kids (dilyen, dakota, chyanne, sierra)
Brian n Chrissy

Not to burst your fire bubble or whatever. There's a het ghost offspring from an orange ghost to normal and it looks identical to yours(it's in the classifieds.)

Hope this helps!!

Of course there is. Uberkid, please come back!