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I am going to start raising pinkie mice for my rubber boa and I would like to freeze them,my question is do I kill them first or freeze them alive?If they need to be killed first,what is the most humane way?thanks for any advice.

I've heard that a lot of people just put pinkies in the freezer, as I used to do too, till I heard that when you put a bunch in together they keep each other warm and it takes longer for them to die. So now I just thunk them before putting them in... but you can't thunk too hard or you smash their tiny skulls.

Hope this helps...
MissHisssss

Or you can just seperate them so they can't get to each other in the holding container.. I use wax paper to do this... one layer on the bottom.. 3 pinks..(though these are rats...mice you could probably do more) in the corners...another layer of wax paper.. and more pinks..and keep doing that until the whole litter is gone....Usually they're dead after about 10 minutes..they go to sleep from hypothermia...then you let them freeze for a while.. before taking them out of the container and packaging them in baggies.. tinfoil.. vaccuum sealer bags. etc..and they won't stick together.

Good idea. I used to use ice trays too, when I only had a few pinks. But I still just klunk them now just incase it takes longer than we think it takes for them to fall asleep. A peace of mind thingy.

MissHisssss

yea, i would kill them first.. freezing would be a cruel way to die, i think. for pinkies, take the thing and throw it down HARD onto a concrete floor or something else hard enough. the blow to the head should kill it, or at least knock it out.

or

put the mouse in a pillowcase, swing around once or twice for speed, the smash it onto a wall/floor/something hard. does the same thing..

or

use CO2.. theres enought threads about this method, so search if youre curios.. i personaly use the aforementioned 'whack' methods and a cervical snap for adult mice and rats..

a tip about freezing that sucks to find out the hard way: dont throw them all in a bag and put that in the freezer.. you will get one big block of frozen mice. i put the separate mice in their own little sandwich bag until frozen, then put them all in one big ziplock.. that way no 'blocks'

hope this all helped... anymore questions feel free to ask... dave
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>>I am going to start raising pinkie mice for my rubber boa and I would like to freeze them,my question is do I kill them first or freeze them alive?If they need to be killed first,what is the most humane way?thanks for any advice.

I personally freeze them. If they are fuzzys I drown then freeze, or if I have fistfulls of them I drown first and then freeze. I personally don't smash them first as it ends up with this massive bruises and I don't care if it is a quicker death, it is nasty. They are just to delicate to kill that way. Big fuzzys on up I cervically dislocate, then freeze. Anything I can kill quickly without deforming them, I do.
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Sonya

You don't have to throw these things really hard against concrete or twirl them around in the air to get leverage to kill them. That's how you get bloody messes (that'll cause them to stick together if you put them together in a baggie before freezing. I've never had pinks/mice stick together).

Try taking a pink and just flick your finger on the top of it's head... and you'll find that that's all it takes. The larger the mouse the harder the flick, though I do an extra bang against the side of a table top for hoppers, once they are knocked out. With adults, I put one in a bag and give it a few very quick wacks on the wall (front, back, side... boom, boom boom... to make sure I got it's head). Most don't even kick. And you don't have to hit it THAT hard (it's only a little mouse)... but I do suggest that if you use a plastic bag (like from Wal Mart) try to get as much air out as you can by grabbing as close to the mouse as you can... or it'll just bounce off the wall like a balloon... without much effect.

MissHisssss

I have to use the bag/pillow case method for my large male rats.... I just had to put down one of my male breeders because he was fighting with everyone in the community tank... Just started to fight with everyone, including the females one day and wouldn't stop. Pinkies I just freeze.. if you know anything about hypothermia.. as long as your body loses heat faster than it produces it... there is very little pain... and eventually your body goes torpid and you fall to sleep.. You just never wake up... Pinkies its even faster with... and easier.... not everyone knows how and where to hit so that death is instant.. and not messy....

>>Try taking a pink and just flick your finger on the top of it's head... and you'll find that that's all it takes. The larger the mouse the harder the flick, though I do an extra bang against the side of a table top for hoppers, once they are knocked out. With adults, I put one in a bag and give it a few very quick wacks on the wall (front, back, side... boom, boom boom... to make sure I got it's head). Most don't even kick. And you don't have to hit it THAT hard (it's only a little mouse)... but I do suggest that if you use a plastic bag (like from Wal Mart) try to get as much air out as you can by grabbing as close to the mouse as you can... or it'll just bounce off the wall like a balloon... without much effect.

And as my vet reacted when I told him how many herpers kill their rodents ......"Shudders"
I have been killing rodents for many years. IF you want instant death why not just separate their vertebrae with a dull knife blade. If you are only flicking them I doubt they are dead going into the freezer. And given the delicate nature of their bones they are going to bruise up if you have actually killed them. I prefer not to kill them that way. I don't consider it respectful.
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Sonya

Shudders on the vertabrae thingy too. I've heard that that doesn't always work on the first try either and it must be done again. Whether what I heard was true or not, I don't know.

I make sure mine are dead before they go in the freezer. A slow death by freezing is more tramatic in my eyes then knockin em out (bruise or no bruise). And how do we know that the 10 minutes it takes to freeze doesn't feel like an eternity to these little guys. And who's to say that it happens in 10 minutes? Has anyone sat in a freezer and watched?

I don't see that it's necessary to slam them down on concrete and or bust them against a wall at mach 1 force though. Besides bruising more of their body than just their skull, and probably making a bloody mess... I'm surprised that they don't acutally bust apart from the force of the blow.

I've just started this killing thing and merely shared what method is best for me to use out of the methods I've heard about. With everyone sharing their opinnions.... the person who asked the question in the first place will have a lot of choices to choose from when it comes time for him to kill his own.

I love these forums.... great learning tools.
MissHisssss

>>Shudders on the vertabrae thingy too. I've heard that that doesn't always work on the first try either and it must be done again. Whether what I heard was true or not, I don't know.

If you don't do it right, they I suppose so. For every 100 I do I would say that 2 don't die first try. How many people multi 'Whack' because they just stunned the first time? I think too many people use the Whack so they can be more 'distant' to killing something. Put it in a sack and whack the sack. I think if you are going to do it you need to do it right. Humanely and effectively.

>>I don't see that it's necessary to slam them down on concrete and or bust them against a wall at mach 1 force though. Besides bruising more of their body than just their skull, and probably making a bloody mess... I'm surprised that they don't acutally bust apart from the force of the blow.

I don't either but I know a LOT of people that do do it that way. They are afraid to hit it too softly first. Then they get scared that one of the prey 'wakes up' and possibly hurts their snake....so then they do the overkill.

>>
>>I've just started this killing thing and merely shared what method is best for me to use out of the methods I've heard about. With everyone sharing their opinnions.... the person who asked the question in the first place will have a lot of choices to choose from when it comes time for him to kill his own.
>>
>>I love these forums.... great learning tools.

I agree completely.
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Sonya

There was a time when I couldn't even touch anything dead, much less have it in my hands when it's dying, with my being the killer. I'm not a farm folk and haven't gotten used to that, you know, killing chickens, rabbits, etc. I've raised animals all my life but it was to keep them alive. This is something new for me and that's why just putting pinks into the freezer alive was a god send. The freezer killed them. (It only took a few months to get over the guilt of doing that). Then my snakes got bigger... or I had too many... and had to kill larger sizes. I put the adults in a bag because I didn't think a flick would kill them, and also cuz I was chicken to watch them die. I'm sorta getting used to it with the smaller sizes now, though, and will probably be able to do the adults later, but I must admit I get close to them and it's like they learn to trust me... and it bothers me to have them watch me kill them. Perhaps in time.

Now a question Sonya. How do you take quotes from other posts and include them in your posts? I'm new at this computer/thread stuff too.

MissHisssss

Thanks for all the advice,I think I will stick to the "flick" method.I didn't really like the idea of freezing alive,and I think that wacking them against a table in a bag is overkill (rats maybe,but not a mouse)but then again I will only be using pinkies & fuzzies for feeders.

The suggested method of euthanasia in research labs is decapitation with scissors (not ideal for feeders I know!) or cervical dislocation which, IN PINKIES, can be done simply by pinching the pinkie's neck between the thumb and forefinger. Freezing is NOT recommended for euthanasia, only for anesthesia.

Hope that helps!

Kristine