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Would it be a waste of money to buy a really nice female pastel if I am only going to breed it to try to produce a pastel pied? I have no interest in producing normal pastels so I was wondering since the pieds pattern is different anyways would the quality of the pastel make a difference in the quality of the pastel pied? I have seen lower grade females for under $700.00 and the nice ones seem to still go for over $1000.00. I am pretty poor after buying my het pieds and my wife is ready to kill me so if I could save a little cash it would be nice. I was thinking as long as the pastel carries the genetics it would not really matter. Let me know what you think
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1.2 Het pied
0.2 Normals

Go for it! She won't know if you slip one more into the house! I would wait though until you produce a pied then get the pastel depending on the sex of the pied. Then you would know for sure all the pastel and normal offspring are het pied and that's your ticket to pastel pieds!

yah, I say go for it. I dont think I would wait to buy my female pstel though. The bigger she is, the better she will breed. You will eventually get a male pied and can breed him to the female pastel and still breed him to other females for pieds. Sounds like a good way to go... I am doing the same thing right now. Its a long bumpy road... and whos wife wouldnt be mad about dropping $1500 on a snake. I know mine thinks I am crazy.

I am planning on picking up a female in a few weeks, but I was wondering if it is worth it to pay extra for a really nice one. Do you think the quality of the pastel will affect the quality of the pastel pied. I am thinking it won't matter due to the pattern of the pieds. As for waiting until I produce a visual pied male that is probably a good idea but I am a big believer in the marker. I know there are alot of hets that don't have the marker but I believe if both parents have the marker the Het babies will to. I know the breeder that I got mine from told me every one of his 100% hets have the marker. He also produced a few clutches of 50% hets and he said about half have the marker and half don't. I know that does not prove anything but I think there is something to it. I figure wost case is I end up with a few pastel 50% het pieds(hopefully a couple of females) and by the time any of those females are big enough to breed I should have produced a male visual anyways.
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1.2 Het pied
0.2 Normals

I think the quality of the pastel parent will affect the quality of the pastel portions of the pastel pied babies.

Paul Hollander

If you are looking to produce pastel pieds any time soon then a female pastel is not what you need. I would sell your het for pied male and buy as many female pied hets and female visual pieds as possible. Bring them up for a few years and then invest in your male wich should be a pastel het for pied or better yet a pastel pied. This is not the cheap way to go about it but the only realistic path if you have plans on producing pastel pieds in this decade.

Kevin

If I had 10 or 20 grand that is what I would do but I don't have that kind of money to spend on snakes. I don't see why I can't breed my het pied male to a pastel female next year and hope for a couple of female pastels. I found a pretty nice 04 female pastel that is about 700 grams for a pretty good price that I am planning on buying. She should be ready to go next year if she eats regularly I would think. The females produced would a be 50% chance hets. So there is 1 year.By the time they are big enough to breed I should have produced a male visual by breeding my male het pied with my two het pied females I already have.I figure that is another 2 years. So that is 3 or 4 years and I will have a shot at a pastel pied the way I am figuring it. It should be a 1 in 8 shot if one of the females turns out to be a het pied right? I am hoping to be able to produce a visual male pied next season and then he will be used to produce pastel 100% het pieds. I realize this is not the best or fastest way to go but I am hoping with a little luck with the odds I can get a pastel pied in under 5 years. I am not in a hurry so I would rather produce everything myself instead of taking out a second mortgage on my house. I think thats a better way to go anyway. Anyone can just buy it if they have a much more understanding wife than me.
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1.2 Het pied
0.2 Normals

I just noticed you said to buy a pastel pied male. I should have said in my previous post I dont have 40 or 50 grand instead of 10 or 20.
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1.2 Het pied
0.2 Normals

By the time your 100% hets are breeding size, in three or more years, the price on a male pastel het for pied will be close in price to what you are going to spend on a sub adult pastel now. I would bet that three years from now pastel pieds will be selling for 10k cash. If you want to buy the female pastel now you would recoup the money faster breeding her to a male pastel and using the funds produced to purchase a male pastel 100%het for pied for your pied hets. Does this make sence?

Kevin

It should only take a year and a half to reach breeding size!!

It is possible for females to reach breeding size in that time and possible that they can produce that young but far from typical. I would not rely on it at any rate.

Kevin

I am assuming 2 years or so for each female. My het pieds are just over 450 grams and they were born in aug. That is without pushing them. I feed 1 weaned rat every six days.
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1.2 Het pied
0.2 Normals

I never said you idea does not make sense, but I don't really care about making a bunch of money off of my snakes. If I make enough to buy new snakes that I want I will be more than happy. I know your plan will get me more pastel pieds a lot faster, but I am not willing to invest that much money to get there. My wife lets me spend $200.00 per paycheck on "my stupid snakes" as she calls them. Thats only $4800.00 a year so my idea is the best way I can think of on my budget. So far for all of my snakes(trio of hpieds and 2 normal females)I only have spent $2500 if I buy the pastel I want it will go to $3500. My next project I am saving for will be a pair of yellow bellies from a proven line, but that won't be until next year. I do agree with you if money was not an issue I would do the same thing you suggested.
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1.2 Het pied
0.2 Normals

I hear you. I just don't think putting 3k plus into a female pastel is your best route for what you are trying to produce. I would put the money into a visual male pied. I bet you could find one for close to what you are getting the pastel for. Once you have the male pied at least you know that eveything he produces is worth holding on to. Then save up 800.00 more and bring up a female pastel that with luck will be ready to breed the same year as your 100% hets plus your male visual has proably produce more 100% hets for you just from breeing him to normal adults while you were waiting for your het females and female pastels to get up to size. This is not as fast as my first plan for you but alot safer plan then hopeing possible hets prove out years from now. Just some thoughts. I have to go to work now.

Kevin

I am only paying $1000 for the female pastel. It is almost 700 grams and is an early 05. It is not the nicest one I have ever seen, but it is far from the worst. I would say just an average pastel. I just can't see spending $4000 or $5000 on a visual pied when I may be able to produce one myself late next season. If I do produce one next year he will be ready to breed a year later, and I can breed him with original Female pastel that will already up to size. The original pastels female babies that should be hatched next season could be ready by the time the visual pied male is ready to breed. That way my visual pied would be breeding my 2 normal het pieds, 1 female pastel, and 1 or 2 female pastels that are 50% hets. That way worst case scenario is I prodce a decent number of pastel 100% pieds, best case I get a pastel pied. It really all depends on how long it takes me to get a male visual pied. If I get one out of my 2 het females clutches next year I think I could get a pastel pied in under 5 years.
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1.2 Het pied
0.2 Normals

Hi,

I don´t think it´s just that easy...
Don´t forget, that you will only get 50 % (maybe worse) Pastel Offspring, from a Het Pie Male to pastel cross...
Working with 50/50 Chances will not satisfy you, I guess...

For my opinion, that´s just way too sketchy! If you wanna go for Pastelpieds, get yourself Female Pieds and breed them to a pastel male... So you´ll get an Pastel 100% Het Pie Offspring, than you´ll have enough possibilities to breed them as you like...

I´d try to breed as many visible Pieds with my 1,2 and also work with a male Pastel on my 2 normal girls. Sell some Pastel offspring and Het Pied Males to get some cash...
Keep Girls and feed em well....

I mean, this won´t be the fastest choice, but will be quite safe, and you can also get some cash for other projects...

And do not think, Balls will breed easily every season... Thats Luck.... I supose my females to breed in their third year and then every 2nd season... If more, im happy, if not, i won´t be dissapointed and have no problems, cause I was prepaired...
If you go with your idea and have bad luck, you won´t be getting anything good within the next years... think about it!

And be aware, sometimes breeding females too early, will give you small clutches, small hatchlings and often cause the females to stop breeding for 1 or 2 seasons...

Just my idea...

Greetings from Europe,

Buzz

Btw... Sorry for my english, not a native speaker, in a hurry and damn tired... Maybe a liitle too confusing... Sry

I totally agree the way I am doing it is not the best. If I had about $10,000 to spend I would buy a pied male, 3 het pied females, and 2 female pastels. That way I would get more visual pieds, and pastel 100% het pieds in the first breeding. I understand about only getting 50% pastels from a clutch, but if I get 5 eggs to hatch I think the chances are pretty good to get at least 1 female pastel. Either way I am hoping to get a visual male pied next season and I will breed it to the 700g pastel female I am buying in a few weeks the next season. When the babies from this pairing are large enough I will breed the females to the male pied and possibly get a pastel pied. If I get only male pastels from this breeding I will just reverse my idea and use a female pied to bred with a male pasel het pied. I can't really understand how it will take me more than 4-5 years to have a clutch that has a shot to hatch a pastel pied even with my slower cheaper way.I know it will take some time and luck but I am only 26 years old so I have plenty of time even if it does take ten years to actually get lucky with the odds. If you think this will take a long time you don't even want to here my plan for producing laver albino pied. I am figuring 15 years on that one. All I really wanted to know with this thread was if people thought the quality of the pastel would make a difference in the quality of the pastel pied. I still don't really think it would make much of a difference do to the color and pattern of pieds.I have only gotten one reply about that.
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1.2 Het pied
0.2 Normals

Sorry for preaching something to you that you did not even ask about in the first place. I just wanted to point some things out wich it seems like you understand. As far as quality of pastel I do agree that it would not be a big issue. I'm sure the best pastels would help some but any quality will look pretty good.

Kevin

Don't worry about it. I like hearing other peoples opinions. I know i am not going the easiest way, but I think producing everything myself will be much more rewarding when I do get my pastel pied. Next year I am planning on a pair of yellow bellies to try for an ivory, and a het lavender albino male to one day, when I am an old man produce a lavender albino pied. Thanks for all of your advice
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1.2 Het pied
0.2 Normals