Reptile & Amphibian Forums

walked around a while looking at all the fish then went to the snakes and i saw a lil bebe pueblan sitting in a cage showing off his ribs
Looked like he hadn't eaten in weeks and I wanted to buy him and try to get him to eat..
They were selling him for 75$ :O
Amazing how they still try to sell animals after they know its defective(Doesnt eat, or is sick)

Glad the pet store near me keeps all they're pets healthy...

-Nate

They were probably trying to feed the poor thing crickets.

I don't know why so many pet stores seem to have never even bothered to have read a single thing about the animals they are trying to sell!

Practically ANYBODY I have ever talked to about my snakes (who has never cared for much more than a cat or two) already assumes that I feed them mice!

So many "savvy" pet store people are so far off the mark when it comes to reptile care, that it is laughable (although it is quite sad).
I have been in SEVERAL pet stores that had CRICKETS(!!!) in their corn snake, Cal king and milk snake cages!!!
They should really be thrown behind bars and fed crickets themselves for a couple of months to see how they like it. Seriously, such idiocy and ignorance is not excusable.

This is why, in part, whenever I have to enter a pet store and buy a live rodent or two for one of my picky live-only eaters; whenever the person behind the counter inevitably asks what kind of animal I am feeding, I then say with a serious look on my face, "Bogertophis subocularis." LOL
I do this just to see them try to act like they know what I am talking about. And at the same time, I hope it will put a fire in their butts to learn something about the poor, unlucky ophidians in their care.
Later
Dusty R.

Colubrids don't eat crickets? That's a new one for me. Ken.

.

how many snakes have you raised like that?
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jake

my addiction:
2 normal ball pythons (lazlo and izzy)
1 amelenistic corn snake (mazy)
0.1 blizzard corn (blizz)

Don't raise them like that. They can tear their delicate insides up with the crickets' sharp exoskeletons.
Look at the post in the corn forum.
Dusty

They can tear their delicate insides up with the crickets' sharp exoskeletons.

That's total BS and I'm not talking bachelor of science. Delicate insides? ROTFLMAO (just learned that from the "aol-biologist" thread!) So do you think treefrogs and other herptile insectivores are made of cast iron on the inside? A cricket poses absolutely no internal threat to a baby snake. ROTFLMFAO again. Ken.

"I think that there is no doubt but that corns in the wild will eat all sorts of things. I have posted about this before, but I do know of one instance where a person who had a wc corn was feeding it for more than a year on nothing more than the earthworms he dug out of his garden, because he didn't know that corns wouldn't do that! What's more the snake was thriving!

I have no doubt that corns can and do eat insects from time to time in the wild. I also have no doubt that corns can eat crickets in captivity.

However, I ALSO have no doubt that to offer them crickets (especially as hatchlings) is very dangerous. No, not for the "you can't do that...it's against the rules" mentality. No one likes to go against the grain more than I do ("episkiastism," anyone?). The problem I have with feeding crickets to hatchlings is due to the exoskeleton of crickets.

Corns are hearty little creatures, but they are unbelievably delicate in some ways. For a neonate corn, the lining of the stomach is only a few cells thick at best, and the sharp edges of cricket legs and shells are easily capable of rupturing the digestive tract. I have even seen where a corn was killed because it was fed live prey, and the claws of the food item shreded the esophagus of the young corn, because it was not fully constricted prior to consumption.

So, I think to ask and consider the question of "will they eat insects" is fine...interesting even. But I cannot stress loudly and long enough, especially to newer keepers, that crickets just should not be included in the diets of their corns. Yes, wild corns probably do eat them, but then again, most wild corns probably don't make it through their first year either."
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Darin Chappell
Hillbilly Herps
PO Box 254
Rogersville, MO 65742

Ken,
Why doesn't the aforementioned post by Darin make sense to you? Why is it wrong? Are you a vet? Do you have some kind of proof or research 411 showing that a neonate's stomach lining could not be torn by a cricket? Please tell us or share it with us.
Because although I do not really know either way which is correct, this seems to make some sense to me. And if your testimony of this knowledge is solid, then tell us why it is.
I had a well-known herp vet and king/milk guy, Dave Doherty, tell me that my baby suboc most likely had a tear inside do to a food item that occured before I bought the snake. He said it is a more-or-less common occurence among captive baby snakes. The snake died, being (practically speaking) too small to operate on.
If a pinky or fuzzy could sometimes do it, then why not a cricket?
If you know of some credible source that tells us either way, please share it. I don't give advice or post comments unless I have some inkling that I may be right, due to what I have studied. But this makes some sense to me, without having any real CREDIBLE source to look up.
Dusty

>>Don't raise them like that. They can tear their delicate insides up with the crickets' sharp exoskeletons.

I would have to disagree one snake speices i know that feeds on mainly insects with the odd small lizard (and in captivity only crickets).The (ROUGH & SMOOTH GREEN SNAKES) and there has never been a case of crickets doing any thing to them in any way.And rough and smooth green snakes get to a good size to some being around 3'feet long in rare case's 4'feet.

I was going to post that I've seen 3 colubrids accept crickets. These were:

A baby Cal king, CB 1x
A baby cornsnake, CB 1x
A ground snake (no real surprise I guess) multiple times

Then I thought I'd get laughed off of this forum. Since Ken posted his picture, I felt it was safe to comment

Anyway, we all know that baby milks/kings/corns do well on pinks. We feed them pinks even if they really want lizards or other prey. I wonder what they would eat in the wild. I wonder if some insects are readily taken. Does anyone know?

I do understand your point Dusty. Just wondering if some king/corn hatchlings in the wild might take insect prey. The pet store should do what it takes to get the snake feeding on pinks IMO.

I've never seen that. We learn something all the time. I'm going to start feeding all my hatchling corns and kings crickets they are a lot cheaper. I wonder how many a 4 ft corn would eat?

blah this petstore (noticed it as i was walking into a card shop)
didnt have any pinkies for sale, so i doubt they had any to feed him...

-Nate

I should switch all of my subocs over to crickets. Then I wouldn't have $180 worth of mice in my freezer, or an angry wife that wants an explanation as to why I just killed our bank account with a rodent order.

Not sure, but when you find out let me know

I am most certain that some baby kings/corns/milks do take an occasional insect in the wild when the oppurtunity presents itself, as also evidenced by the occasional hatchling that will accept one in captivity.
But the general consensus is that baby Pantherophis (Elaphe) and Lampropeltis, wild or captive, naturally consume small lizards and/or frogs.
I mean...come on...no one is telling us to rub a cricket on a pink mouse to excite a cornsnake into eating a cricket-scented pinky.
My point is, that I have seen many hatchlings starving to death, showing their ribs, etc because they were being offered crickets.
Thanks,
Dusty R.

baby gentilis and syspila might occasionally take small soft body insects. Had a few very small syspila actually trying to consume insects upon uncovering them in the Field years ago.
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I may be old , cantankerous, crabby, and cynical, but......

While back I saw 2 baby corns 1 baby Ca king and 2 baby Pueblans all together housed in a 10 gallon tank in one of those chain type pet stores in a shopping mall.
I told the reptile "expert" that kings,milks eat each other and other snake but he said I was wrong.
I hope they were bought before the CA king who was the biggest ate them.
It is amazing chain type pet stores sell any animals at all.