Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi Everyone:

Since the topic was brought up on another forum I thought I would make the same information I posted available on other sites that I visit:

Protherics does not support domestic A/V banks for domestic snakes, they do think it's a good idea for exotic snakes. They go by Dr. Bushes "Time is Tissue" battle cry. They said treatment is faster if the hospital stocks CroFab rather than coming from a bank somewhere.

I blew them out of the water by saying the lag in getting the A/V is not transporting it, it's convincing the Physicians they need to give it on a timely basis. I cited local bites where the Physicians in one case would not give A/V when it was needed, another case they would not give more than 5 vials when 21 was required to neutralize the bite because they did not want to take the risk of giving more. Several of us interceeded and had the victim transported to someplace that would use it. I told Protherics they had a serious training issues left to take care of before I would buy their line of crap.

We are not supporting domestic bites with CroFab since it costs too damn much. $1000/vial and an average of 18* used for moderate bites because it clears you system faster than the venom does. Let's say if we get 50 members at $300/person, that's about $15,000 for serum, which is not even enough $$ to buy enough CroFab to cover an "average bite".

Till Bioclone is FDA approved for North American Crotalids we will not cover them with CroFab. Why not use Bioclone from the start, since it's a hands down better A/V and $200/ vial? Simply, it's NOT FDA approved drug, so if you were bitten and showed up with Bioclone A/V the Physicians would not in a million years give you the Bioclone when they have an FDA approved drug(CroFab)in the Pharmacy to use. Case closed, Till Bioclone is approved in about 3 years I would say.

When we get finished jumping throught the remaining FDA hoops we will stock plenty of serum for all the commonly kept exotics.

Cheers!

Al

* CroFab works the best on bites by the snake species used to make the A/V: A. piscivorus, C. atrox, C. adamanteus, and C. scutulatus. It is almost ineffective on Helleri bites where 30 or more vials may be needed. See the prescribing information for details
CroFab

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"Snakes in Peru are not there for decoration, they really bite people."

Professor David Warrell, Omaha 10/21/05

Al,
I don't have my Antivenin Index at hand, (it's at work) but I am sure there are zoo's that have Bioclone on hand and ready to go to the ER with their bite victim.

Are you serious when you say ER'S won't treat a bite victim with Bioclone IF the ER already stocks CroFab because it is FDA approved and Bioclone is not?

Your quote:

Simply, it's NOT FDA approved drug, so if you were bitten and showed up with Bioclone A/V the Physicians would not in a million years give you the Bioclone when they have an FDA approved drug(CroFab)in the Pharmacy to use. Case closed, Till Bioclone is approved in about 3 years I would say.

Wow!
I would guess that ER's that DO NOT stock Crofab would have to use Bioclone if it was brought with the victim.

But are you really saying that ALL hospital Emergency Rooms would not "in a million years" use Bioclone because is is NOT an FDA approved? I thought most anti-venin was classified as an "experimental drug" making the bite victim or representative, sign a waiver that they knew this was an "experimental drug" thus alleviating the ER/Hospital from lawsuit in case of death or dismemberment.

Very interesting indeed.
I will try to remember to bring my Antivenin Index home tomorrow and see who stocks Bioclone, and I will also contact Poison Controls centers to see if this is indeed a policy of ER"s/Hospitals regarding of treatment of snake bite, and using only FDA approved drugs.

Randal

BTW, nice purple-spot pic!

Randal:

If you were bitten by a Mexican Rattlesnake...lets say a C. basiliscus which is NOT covered by CroFab, then they would treat with Bioclone, no problem.

If you went for a C. atrox bite and wanted to use your Bioclone, or if they did not have CroFab on hand they would not (could not)legally give you the non-FDA approved drug. They would find some CroFab at another hospital and ship it in.

This was part of a discussion I had with several PCC's Directors at the Snakebite Symposium. It's also one of the FDA hangup, transfering and "Experimental Drug" to someone not covered under the IND-BB protocol. The FDA "looks" the other way when it comes to many of these issues but god help us all if they clamp down because some physician somewhere give a non-approved drug to treat a snakebite and the patient expires when they had an approved drug on hand.

The AZA Index is very obsolete, a few years old and not much help in this matter.

Cheers!

Al
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"Snakes in Peru are not there for decoration, they really bite people."

Professor David Warrell, Omaha 10/21/05