Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i want to know if people buy them? with so many other morph why would u buy a normal??? i dunno i was just wondering.
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Kevin

Just sold one yesterday w/10 gallon tank (a 05' holdback) for a hundred bucks!!! Some people just don't know. . . But he was a pretty normal - an Okeetee. . .

Zee
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

n/p

Selling one one of his Oketees AND a set up up for $100 would be a deal to me. Zee has some beautiful Oketees. AND, he stands behind anything he sells and I can guarantee he will talk to you on the phone, through email or whatever you might need to make sure you are happy. Is $100 too much? Not when you wnat quality. Maybe I am just too protective of the good guys.......
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"No I have never eaten snake!"
A quote I find myself using everytime someone finds out I have snakes.

i agree he is very helpful, has helped me with a few things.
and really really nice.

Read his post. It wasn't an Okeetee, it was a Normal. Also, he took relish in the fact the person "didn't know any better". It sounded like he rooked the customer and was gleeful about it. How else do you read that???

OK, so it WAS an Okeetee, but what's with the "some people don't know any better"?

I'm sure from the seller's perspective it's great when you can get the mo$t po$$ible dollar$ for you $nake$...And it IS up to the buyer to be aware of market price, etc. Unfortunately, that line put the seller in a bad light, making it look like he does not value normals (be they okeetee or not) and/or is willing to make fun of his customers' lack of knowledge. To state that he sold a normal for a good price would have been a better choice.

Maybe he will sell me one of his golden babies for $100...After all...I don't know any better.

Happy Holidays. Duffy

Not you too.
read it again
he was making light of the person who asked the question "why would anyone buy a normal"

Not the person he sold the okeetee to.

You can bet you @$$ the snake and enclosure were well worth $100.00

He would not take advantage of anyone.
He is a stand up guy and has been very hepfull around here.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

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First of all...Please disregard my foolish misinterpretation of the post. I should have known better given his reputation both as a dealer/breeder and a gentleman on these forums. MY bad!

Second...Upon re-reading the post, it reminded me of the example of a "dangling modifier" that an english prof. showed me over 2 decades ago. I hope you will understand why I thought of it, and find it even half as humorous and memorable as I did. Peace.

"Rotting in the cellar, my brother was unable to sell the potatoes."

Hey Duffy,
Well done my man!!! Glad to see someone acknowledge their mistake!!!! Hope this isn't "too damn preachy" for you!!!!
Shalom.

Pastor Pat

I like to admit when I'm wrong asap...especially when those I respect are kind enough to point it out to me. Not too preachy at all, by the way...Just right.

Happy Holidays to you all. Duffy

>>First of all...Please disregard my foolish misinterpretation of the post. I should have known better given his reputation both as a dealer/breeder and a gentleman on these forums. MY bad!
>>
>>Second...Upon re-reading the post, it reminded me of the example of a "dangling modifier" that an english prof. showed me over 2 decades ago. I hope you will understand why I thought of it, and find it even half as humorous and memorable as I did. Peace.
>>

I knew you would get it!
Oh those dangling modifiers....lol
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

>>OK, so it WAS an Okeetee, but what's with the "some people don't know any better"?

seems to be a habit of yours doesn't it?
He was talking about the question as to why anyone would buy a normal not the person who actually was smart enough to buy one.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

I have met Zee a couple of times, and purchased one of his Eastern Kings. Zee's a super nice guy, and as honest as you can get. I would be more then happy for Zee to rip me off by selling me some more of his A grade animals.

Steve

... but I don't know the guy and I read it the way I read it. It does sound like he's ripping the guy who bought from him, not the original poster. I got a quality Okeetee for $30 in October, and once got a 30 gal breeder tank for $70, so maybe he's not too far off. The comment just set me off. My apologies if I stepped on any toes...

Walt

No biggie Walt. I can understand the way it sounded. If I didn't know Zee personally, I may very well have thought the same way.

Steve

"... but I don't know the guy and I read it the way I read it. It does sound like he's ripping the guy who bought from him, not the original poster. I got a quality Okeetee for $30 in October, and once got a 30 gal breeder tank for $70, so maybe he's not too far off. The comment just set me off. My apologies if I stepped on any toes...

Walt

Almost took advantage (of her), but not quite. I've even included free feeding sessions and a money back guarantee if she changes her mind. Remember the snake was one of the best looking babies I had, a "holdback".
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

I thought I was the only one....lol....I've sold a few 'holdback' corns doing very similar things...including all the goodies (critter cage, hidebox, water bowl, Love's Book, plus free f/t mice w/tongs). I'm more willing to do this when it's a local deal on one of my holdbacks. I don't think the price of $100 is unreasonable for any type of snake. Why should it be for corns? right? normal corns have become sort of a disposable pet and it's just awful. Anyway, I don't think it's reasonable to ship a glass aquarium, especially since it would probably arrive separately than the animal. But with local deals, its always nice to stay in touch w/buyers and maybe even visit your old holdback every once in a while.lol.

I can take pride in knowing the buyer has been setup properly from the start, especially if it's one of my prized holdbacks. I've met so many people that get started with misinformation... it's a real shame. Anyway, just thought I'd throw in a few cents....I always posted here a few years back but have been so busy in the past few years that I rarely get a chance anymore. Now I just silently browse.lol. Happy Holidays.
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Sincerely, Jason
www.NortheastSnakes.com
NortheastSnakes@aol.com

And IT is good to know that YOU can check up on your prized animal and even buy it back if the buyer gets tired of keeping it. Almost makes me think that I got ripped off!!!

Zee
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

Well...no shipping...that's just awesome of you. Shipping is so darn expensive anymore. I think a lot of people just don't realize how expensive it is. Factor the cost of using a new box (I hate recycling boxes). I shipped to someone once cross country and I got nailed with a $85 shipping charge....(through Fedex...I'm fedex certified) and that wasn't even including heat packs or the box.lol. You may have very well given that snake away for all we know.lol.

I sometimes don't bother to charge people for shipping and will either include it in the price or work something out with a buyer b/c it's so expensive anymore. I've spent more money than I can ever hope to recover in this hobby of ours. lol
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Sincerely, Jason
www.NortheastSnakes.com
NortheastSnakes@aol.com

I know I don't have to explain myself to no-one, but I will this time (since it's X-mas and a time of giving, so I give you this): And I believe most of you would have taken the same route:

Here's what happened: I was offered a hundred bucks for my 05' holdback okeetee by a lady that visited my house and saw my collection. I didn't want to sell the little guy at first anyway. I even told her that they are NOT worth a hundred bucks (until they get older) and she refused to give me less money for it and REALLY wanted it. So I threw in the 10 gallon tank with MY home-made escape-proof lid and 50 (frozen) meals.
This is what I meant by the term: "Some people just don't know": When you are a "Snake-rookie" you CAN'T tell the difference between a baby okeetee and a baby normal. So yes, I could have easily ripped her off (by selling her a normal), but I didn't. I DID sell her my last & nicest Okeetee baby (out of 22 hatchlings). I only changed my mind (about letting him go) because she was VERY persistant, not because of the money. She also lives only about 5 miles from my house which meant that she would have bugged me about it every time I see her (my son and her son are good friends).

As I always said in the Army: "It's so darn easy to criticize everything, but too hard to praise good things. Sometimes you just gotta say "What's right with this world?" - Instead of always dwelling on what's wrong with it. . .Open your EYES and look around, maybe that way you CAN enjoy life a little more. It's still a beautiful world!!! It's not too late. . .
Ok. . . done venting . . . feel better now . . .

MERRY Christmas to ALL of you!!!

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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

too personal...I just think that around the holidays, more people like myself have off and are at home cruising the forums...so there tends to be more responses...some good/some bad. Anyway, you rarely see so many responses anymore...unless its a new BP morph OR a hog versus hogg island debate over in the boa forum.lol

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Sincerely, Jason
www.NortheastSnakes.com
NortheastSnakes@aol.com

So now I know what I need to do to get that Georgia Eastern King you have pictured. Hope you and your family have a Merry Christmas Zee.

Steve

"I only changed my mind (about letting him go) because she was VERY persistant, not because of the money."

I've met so many jerky folks on forums and chat rooms that it's easy to think the worst of people, and that ONE line in your post set me off on a pet peeve rant...

Nice to know you have so much integrity and offered her more to round out the purchase.

Again, sorry to have jumped to conclusions, Zee!!

Walt

Yes, many people buy normal corns, to include myself. Hands down normals are my favorite. There is a huge variation in normal corns. You can go from a range of the brightest Okeetees, to the Miami type corns, to keys type corns, as well as the kissitachie corns or La. and extreme East Tx. On the flip side, some normals can be as dull and drab as it gets. Most of my snakes are normals. The only morph I have is an Axanthic Brooks king. I've always been a huge fan of snakes that are normals or wild types. With all the different morphs of Black Ratsnakes you can buy, and what do I purchase? Just a plain old solid black rat, LOL. No albino Prairie king for me, just a normal. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Steve

i want to know if people buy them? with so many other morph why would u buy a normal??? i dunno i was just wondering

>>i want to know if people buy them? with so many other morph why would u buy a normal??? i dunno i was just wondering.
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>>Kevin

I've got two normals... they're not even Okeetees. However, what would the "ice-cream world" be without plain old vanilla? My children are also learning from my hobby, so it helps that these are examples of "what can be caught in the wild".

There are plenty of beautiful morphs, that's true and I want some of those as well. But the original... now there's beauty in that too.

Just my humble opinion!
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3 Corns - Squall (Normal), Freya (Normal), Peyton (Amel)
2 Florida Kings - Thor & Lilith
1 Leucistic Texas Rat Snake - MacLeod

I am actually actively looking for a normal. Although it is a normal dbl het amel and anery. I think normals are very beautifull. Some are not as good looking as one would hope but still. Also I want the normal dbl het because that will give me the most diversity in my clutch.
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1.0 Ball Python "Wilson" (Castaway)
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Onyx"

There are many who still feel that they are the MOST attractive cornsnake. Also, lots of folks (including myself) are starting to prefer the natural color of many snakes. Combine those factors with price and they are one of the best values out there for your dollar.

Of course, from a breeder/money-making perspective, the only normals most are producing are the hets that wind up being stepping stones in their breeding projects. Normal corns are beautiful snakes. Don't confuse "rare" with beautiful as some do. Duffy

In a heartbeat! If I only had the room for another one! lol

Hands down Normals are my Favorite Corns out of all my snakes my Normal and my Miami which i might add are both Wild caught as Yearlings and are both now hitting 2 yrs now Two out of five of my corns are Normals below you can see pictures below of my best looking now dont take me wrong I love the morphs and how far people are carrying this line and every year I cant wait to see whats new
EDD

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0.1 Ultramel CornSnake
0.1 Albino Snow CornSnake
0.1 Miami Phase CornSnake
1.0 Normal CornSnake
1.0 Sunglow CornSnake
0.1 Standard Ball Python
0.0.1 Rough Green Snake
1.0 Eastern {Chain} KingSnake
0.1 Striped Albino Califorina KingSnake
0.0.1 Legless Lizard AkA Glass Snake
0.1 Broad-Head Skink
1.1 Mediterranean Geckos
0.2 Green Iguanas
0.1 Blue Stripe Iguana
2.1 Tiger Striped Oscars (FISH)
0.1 Albino Oscar (FISH)

>>i want to know if people buy them? with so many other morph why would u buy a normal??? i dunno i was just wondering.
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>>Kevin

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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

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>>>>normal corns can be some of the most striking corns snakes you will ever see.
For most of us old timers the normal corns are what got us interested in corn snakes to begin with.
The varience is amazing.
Of course I will go back to what I always like to tell people.
Normal is seriously misleading.
There is nothing normal about them.
I prefer to call them "Naturals"

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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

>>>>
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

Jimmy,
Nothing normal about your normals!!!!! They are hot!!!!! I'll take a good lookin' normal over a morph anyday!!! But that's just my preference. The issue that Kevin was originally interested in concerns $$$. You either keep corns because you love them or you are after $$$. And if you are after $$$ Corns are a poor choice of snake. Sure Don, Kathy and the one who shall not be named make $$$. But if you really engage them in conversation you'll find out that they work with Corns out of love. I sell my stock but only with a vague hope of breaking even on food and upkeep. In addition to my Corns I have 15 L.g. splendida Kings from 5 different locales. Most King keepers don't look twice at splendida. They are easily the cheapest Knig available yet I would pay big $$$ for one that caught my fancy. But that's just me!! My $.02.
Pat

>>If I ever thought I would make money breeding my corns I would have my wife commit me.
I started keeping snakes because I found them interesting, beautiful and basically easy. I started breeding them for the same reasons. I knew it would be interesting, informative and exciting and in the case of corns not too dificult.
It is all of those and then some.
My main goals are to make enough to pay for my hobby, get a few of my own creations out there and believe it or not, try to help people find the same joy in keeping corns as I do.
If you remember the original poster is the same one who thinks he will make tons of money by breeding high end morphs.
He obviously sees "naturals" as a waste.
Which as we know, is the farthest thing from the truth.

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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

Please explain to me, or help me understand why eastern Black Kings are so underated. (Lampropeltis nigra)
They are some of the most beautiful kings I have seen.
If I went into kings that would be the direction I would go.
and to keep it on topic another "natural"

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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

You're not kidding Jimmy. You ever see Phil Peaks pictures of all those Kentucky Nigra he's taken pics of in the field? I'm a big fan of them, and also I love holbrooki. Both are very underrated kings.
I get a feel that the poster that started this thread feels that maybe normal corns are junk. My advice is, don't confuse this forum with the Ball Python forum. We love our normals over here.

Steve

Please explain to me, or help me understand why eastern Black Kings are so underated. (Lampropeltis nigra)
They are some of the most beautiful kings I have seen.
If I went into kings that would be the direction I would go.
and to keep it on topic another "natural"

Jimmy and Steve,
Eastern Blacks are indeed another under-appreciated sub of Kings. I think people get so caught up in newest and most expensive and consider everything else junk. Too bad for them. If I had room for some more kings, I would sure try to get a pair of Eastern Blacks. As for Ball Pythons I'd rather have a good looking normal (about $100) over the Morphs (some up to $20,000). If Uberkid, or anyone else,thinks that is crazy that is their problem.

Pastor Pat

Merry Christmas!!!!

Some of the ball python morphs are up to $250,000.00 (luecistic)
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1.0 Ball Python "Wilson" (Castaway)
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Onyx"

I have kept a few of each, Western and Eastern black kings. I think one reason Easterns aren't kept much is because of the far northern location causes them to be difficult to keep feeding in winter, the babies are somewhat difficult, and also that they don't seem to have any morphs. Many herpers don't keep a type that has no morphs. Not me. Although I don't keep the Easterns anymore, I do like the Westerns and their variations, splendida X nigrita, because I'll be retiring in s.e. AZ and see a lot of them and they are great snakes. I don't like any of the current morphs with this form, however. I only have one currently, but she is a beautiful normal, and I understand where the pastor is coming from, haha...

TC

Before the morphs came the now forgotten wild type.

I have an 18 year old, heterozygous for nothing, almost 6 foot male corn. He is my favorite snake, hands down.

I also keep several color morphs of this species, but in all aspects, their phenotypes are "new to the hobby."

Neil

He was a good 'ol boy, and I miss his posts..haha. If you're out there, have a great Christmas holiday

Most of my guttatus are normals and locality types. I also crossbreed to make a nice generic sometimes, like this Miami X Keys cross, made by Carol H...

TC

That looks almost like a hypo miami to me.
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1.0 Ball Python "Wilson" (Castaway)
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Onyx"

They might turn out to be hypo or het. hypo, I'm not sure which, yet. That's why I said normal

TC
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Ratsnake Haven...researching ratsnakes since 1988

Ratsnake Haven Group...an information providing list site.

I have found that they are 66% chance het for Anery C aka "morph Z" in the 2005 Cornguide. Have fun!
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Carol Huddleston
www.lowbellyreptiles.com

This just keeps getting better

One is a great feeder and looks like a female. The other doesn't feed as well, but is coming along and looks like a male. Carol, I'm so glad I went with this purchase, even though we have very little room for new additions. These corns are sooooo beautiful. I'm very, very happy with them. Thanks again.

Terry

Carol, this is what your normals look like, right?

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Ratsnake Haven...researching ratsnakes since 1988

Ratsnake Haven Group...an information providing list site.

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Carol Huddleston
www.lowbellyreptiles.com

I personally feel that there is nothing better than a normal snake. I feel like every single morph out there only takes color away from a normal snake in some way, leaving them kind of blehhh..

And the pink eyes get to me. They look like blood blisters that are about to pop.

Give me a normal over some pink-eyed snow with pee-stain yellow markings down its neck any day :O)

I read an interesting post last year on one of the cornsnake forums from a breeder who sold cornsnake morphs at a retail location. This breeder insisted that out of all the various flavors of cornsnakes on display at the pet store, over 60% of all cornsnakes sold are completely NORMAL cornsnakes.

The kids just like those the best.

Chris
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mean people suck

Just purchased one three months ago...wouldn't give a dime for any of the others.

people are breeding. Just because it's new, different, and perhaps rare, doesn't mean it's better.

Ian

Nuff said . . . . . . . . . . . . .! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

Just because you don't like it doesn't make it crap.....Everything apeals to a different person. I love some normals and I think some normals are ugly. I think the striped and motley snows are hideous but there are many people who love them. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. What I love about corns is that there is something for everyone.
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1.0 Ball Python "Wilson" (Castaway)
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Onyx"