Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey, I'm getting my first leopard geckos soon and I'm very excited. I have limited experience with herps (1 tiger salamander that I've had for 2 years), but after extensive research I feel that I'm up for the task, but I still have lots of questions that even the most extensive caresheets aren't answering. I also have "The Herpetoculture of Leopard Geckos", but I'm refraining from opening the package until christmas. Here are some assumptions and questions I've created during my research over the past month.

1-I want to get either two leos, probably a normal and and albino, both female, and I'm hoping to keep them together. People have recommended getting juvinille or sub-adult.

2-Is three to four months considered juvinille? I want to get them young enough so that I can watch them grow and change patterns, but also old enough so that they are sure to be well established.

3-I've looked at many different caging options, but I'm probably going to go for one of the smaller Vision cages. There's one with two square feet of floor space that's fairly cheap, is this enough for two once they grow up? Also the only vent it talks about is the flourescent light vent. Should this be enough venting or should I go to the smallest size with a built in rear vent (four square feet would be the smalles with a vent). I could also go up a size if the floor space isn't enough, but it still has the flourescent light vent.

4-Most of the smaller cages don't provide a place for a heat lamp, but do have places for heat pads. Is this ok, or are heat lamps really necessary if the heat gradient can be achieved with just pads?

5-I know that leos of different sizes shouldn't be kept together. If I get two leos from the same breeder, close in weight, close birthdates, both female, and I monitor how much each is eating, what is the chance that one will hit a growth spurt and I will have to seperate them.

6-Some people have said that sometimes females won't live together, but everything I've read says that females can be kept together. How often does this happen and am I relatively safe keeping the two together.

7- *note* I am able to seperate them if need be (one would go in a 22 gallon rubbermaid container), but I would like to keep the two together since I think it would be cool to see two different colorings right next to each other, but if the chance of there being problems is too high, I might just buy one gecko of some cool morph and keep that.

8-Can anyone recommend a good breeder. The local pet stores are not an option as they both keep their leos on sand, and they also do other stuff with their reptiles that makes me furious.
All the high end breeders I look at are only offering their brand new super hypo RAPTOR blizzard giant patternless carrot tail mack super jungle tremper albino rainwater ultra gecko for eighty five thousand dollars, and I just want some plain normal or albino geckos so I can get a good start with herps before I get the monitor, chameleon, iguana, mack super snow, leachie, dart frog, pastel ball python, or any other of these herps that are already so hyped up.

9-I've found a few good deals since I've started looking. Do you have any recommendations on how to tell if these people are legit? For Example, I found one guy with prices way below everyone else. In his about us portion of his website he claims all his animals are captive bred and that he is a small part time hobbyist/breeder, yet he has loads of reptiles for sale at remarkably low prices. This kind of falls under the "too good to be true, so it isn't" category. What kind of questions could I ask to tell if he really is just an overly zealous hobbyist with great prices, or a scammer?

10-I'm probably going to use tiles as a substrate because I think they are overall the most attractive, and since I'm not going for quantity I want something attractive. With a two foot by one foot base, I was thinking four 1x1 tiles that way I can always have two in there and two soaking/disinfecting/ready to swap out. Sound like a good plan?

11-Handling. How much handling is recommended for leos. I know most people usually recommend no handling for a lot of herps, but I want to know what would be a reasonable amount that I could take them out at various points in their lives (I.E. how much could an adult be handled as opposed to a juvinille) without stressing them too much.

12-If handled regularly, do they tend to calm down with age and get used to it? Also, this is something I read about taming jungle carpet pythons and have since wondered if it would work with other herps. They recommended rubbing your hand on a dish towel and putting it in the cage with your python. Then every day, open the top and allow the snake to approach you and then leave. Also they recommended frequent handling, starting with
5-15 minutes a day, and progressing to 30 mintues- 2 hours over the course of a year. This way, they associate the scent of the towel and your hand being placed in the cage to the scent of you when you handle them and therefore consider it a more normal behavior. I don't even know if this works with other species of snakes much less leos, (do leos even smell?), but if you for some odd reason know it works, or think it could even possibly work, let me know and I'll give it a shot.

Alright, the longer I sit here the more questions that come to mind, but I'm hoping that I've already taken enough time from your life, and I'll do further reasearch elsewear, or post them later. Thanks for reading this excessively long post and have a happy chrismukkawanzakuh or just happy holidays!

to get my leo, i went to a reptile convention. it was really cool. they had plenty of herps there, as well as lots of products and reptile food. unfortunately, there was only one table there with juvie leos, but i fell in love with one, a normal, for only $30. there were also some albinos for $40. i found out about this place by asking a guy at Petland about it, and he sent me there. the conventions are also a good place, since the breeders are right there and you can ask them questions.
as for the other questions, i don't trust myself to answer them, since I'm no expert. My leo is my first one, so...
I am using an UTH and a ceramic heat bulb, because it's really cold in my room, but i don't know how the temp. is where you live. I know leos need belly heat to digest their food properly, so an UTH is a must.
I hope this could help,
Lex

I might be able to get you a female with a rejuvinated tail and all you need to do is pay shiping, shes a 4 year old normal. Otherwilse go to ron trempers site leopardgecko.com and he sells i think jungles for 30 and normals for 20 and albinos for 30.

ok, thanks, if anyone doesn't feel like reading the whole thing, plz just chose a few questions/comments at random and just answer/comment on them to the best of your ability. Thanks again!

Reptile shows are definatelty in my experience some of the best places to get leos for cheap. UTH's should be enough and is usually the most recommended as long as the surface is getting enough heat. Housing females together is usually ok, just be sure to look out for any aggressive-ness from either one. Hope that was a little helpful!

Hi there!
Good for you for doing your research beforehand I will try to answer as many of your questions as I can.

1- Two females will get along the best, provided you have enough space and hides.

2- Im pretty sure 3-4 months is juvi. That would be the best age to get them because like you said, they are more established and less fragile.

3- I'm not too sure about the venting, hopefully someone else can help you with that. Two square feet is roughly the size of a normal 20 gallon, which would be the minimum for two geckos. Bigger is always better of course.

4- Heat pads are the best way to go, as they are nocturnal and use belly heat rather then heat coming from above them.

5- Thats going to all depend on the geckos. There will more often then not, always be one that is more dominant than the other, but to what extent depends on each individual. with mine, i have 6 females. I was keeping 4 together in one tank, 2 in another. One of my females from the tank of 4 was being picked on, hardly got a chance at the food bowl, wasnt eating as good, sometimes saw her being chased around by the others, etc. So I switched her with one of the geckos in the tank of 2. Now, all 4 in the one group get along and no one bullies any of the others, and the one that was bullied previously, is now fine and her tankmate gets along fine with her. Just make sure to watch em at feeding time and watch their growth patterns.

6- My females all get along fine in the groups they are now in. You should be relatively safe, but like i said above, always watch and monitor them for any fights or dominance issues. Sometimes two just will not get along no matter what you do.

8- I agree with the other posts, check if you have any local herp shows and see if you could pick one up from one. There are normal leos most of the time at shows. I have never bought from a breeder online so I dont have any recommendations for you, sorry.

9- Like I said, ive never bought online, so hopefully someone else can help you here.

10- Sounds excellent

11- Minimal handling when you first bring them home is of course the way to go, so they are able to get comfortable in their new surroundings and remain as stress-free as possible. But after a week or two you can start gently handling them. try putting your hand in the cage by them, letting them come to you and see you are not gonna eat them. Scoop em up from the front from underneath. Try not to really restrain them, just let them crawl on your hands and explore. and for young ones, always make sure you are either sitting down or holding them close to the ground because they can sometimes be jumpers when you are not expecting it gentle handing for 15 or so minutes a day is fine, and they calm down pretty quick and learn to enjoy being outside crawlin all over ya.

12- They definately calm down with regular handling. They get to be pretty laid back and trusting. One of the things I love about them
Have no idea about the towel thing though, but ive heard that idea works for other animals other then herps as well. I have no idea if leos can smell

I hope this helps! Good luck!
-----
~Melissa~
1.6.3 Leopard geckos
1.1 Bearded dragons
1.0 Hog Island Boa
0.1 Western hognose
0.1 Coastal carpet python
1.1 Crested Gecko
1.0 Savannah Monitor
0.0.1 Sulcata tortoise
1.0 Eastern Collared Lizard
1.1 Ferrets
0.1 Chinchilla
2.0 kitty cats
0.0.1 Firebelly newt that lives with a betta

Thanks everyone. I bought the two books I've seen recommended to everyone. I think I'll use "The Leopard Gecko Manual" as my guidlines for setting things up, but I've enjoyed "The Herpetoculture of Leopard Geckos" just because it offers so many facts that I may or may not find useful one day. Like establishing colonies, live plants, mixing species, and a lot of things I've seen people say not to do, the authors say is usually perfectly fine. Great books, I recommend them to everyone. I'm considering getting a single gecko probably now, maybe even a male just based on some of the info. in this book. This will also allow me to get a cooler gecko. I'll need to ask around to see what kind of morphs are in the $100-150 range. Thanks again to everyone, I think my questions are more or less answered.