Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here's a picture of the feeding of one of the Bitis caldalis neonates. The "photographer" took about 10 photos but 3 were recorded by my camera...I have no clue what she did as the camera flashed and made it's normal sounds. This is the best one that was recorded.

It shows my hand pancaking the little Bitis down on a fluffy pillow under the surgical towel. They need to be restrained this way so the don't "Death Roll" and hurt themselves or you. The pillow acts as a soft substrate so you can use enough pressure to get the job done without squishing the little beasty. I gently introduce the hopper leg wet with water from the side rather than from the front. I gently push the end to the rear of the oral cavity and let them go. I wait and see what they will do next, most will swallow it down, if not and they spit it out, I do it again till it is eaten. Thereafter, I tease feed first in hopes that they catch on, which some do and others don't. Eventually they graduate to taking newborn pinks.

Just to be clear, I would not advocate this technique with all venomous snakes. A neonate Death Adder or Sawscales are not ones I would do it with, I have a different technique for hotter, more common snakes. The Caudalis are tiny and venom not that toxic, so I take the risk. B. caudalis is rare and I want both these little cuties to make it, so I'll take a risk if it means they survive.

Merry Christmas,

Al

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Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason why so few engage in it.
(Henry Ford)

Great picture Al . You have to have nerves of steel to this kinda thing. I tried force-feeding with my 'moids a couple times long time ago and survived without a bite but I couldn't try it with the hots. Thanks god my babies are eating without any problems.
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We are the best GALATASARAY

I used to feed neos like that till I started using A pinky pump.
When used correctly.
You can feed many neo's at a time, but you still run the risk of a neo nip.
The pump is very gentle and FAST compared to your method.
Not saying yours is wrong or anything.
Just my opinion on another way.
Merry christmas all!
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Bud

The alternate is to forcefeed with a feeding tube or pinky pump. This in my opinion is very risky for the neonate because it's easy to put the tube in the windpipe by mistake and fill it with food. I once accidently killed a neonate Death Adder (A. rugosus) when the canula pierced it esophagus with out me realizing it till I injected 1 ml of food into it's chest cavity. The snake was in obvious distress, so I quickly put it "down" so as not to suffer longer. Also if they regurgitate this mixture they can aspirate it and die. So I advocate whenever possible to feed parts of mice, rats etc...

I also (since I have one) the canula on the pinky pump it too large for these little guys. Look at the photo below, they are really tiny. It's like us trying to fit an 1.5 diameter pipe in our mouths. This is the easiest, safest way for them, not for me, but I accept that.

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Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason why so few engage in it.
(Henry Ford)

I have never been a fan of the pinky pump. Yes, if used correctly, you can cover lots of animals in a short time span, however, even when used correctly, it is still possible to make mistakes and miscalibrate the correct pressure and amount of food...a small error can/will result in death. So, my pinkie pump has stayed in my drawer for many years and I go with much less invasive techniques such as what Al describes (of course, if I was still raising L. alterna, I might be inclined to crank that pump up again!). There are several good technique for small vipers and each person has to do what they feel is best (and if that includes a pinkie pump, then that is fine). We were able to get some small Tri. albolabris started by tubing them and then gently place a mouse tail/leg into their mouth as they crawled toward the open end. This put very little stress on the babies and they were voluntarily feeding w/in a very short time frame.

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
Lake Forest, IL
www.cityoflakeforest.com (go to Parks/Rec and then to the WDC)

>>The alternate is to forcefeed with a feeding tube or pinky pump. This in my opinion is very risky for the neonate because it's easy to put the tube in the windpipe by mistake and fill it with food. I once accidently killed a neonate Death Adder (A. rugosus) when the canula pierced it esophagus with out me realizing it till I injected 1 ml of food into it's chest cavity. The snake was in obvious distress, so I quickly put it "down" so as not to suffer longer. Also if they regurgitate this mixture they can aspirate it and die. So I advocate whenever possible to feed parts of mice, rats etc...
>>
>>I also (since I have one) the canula on the pinky pump it too large for these little guys. Look at the photo below, they are really tiny. It's like us trying to fit an 1.5 diameter pipe in our mouths. This is the easiest, safest way for them, not for me, but I accept that.
>>
>>
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>>Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason why so few engage in it.
>>(Henry Ford)
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

I agree, as well. Also, with the method that Al describes, the snake takes a part in actually eating the meal. I have referred to Al's method as "assist-feeding" instead of force-feeding because the food item is simply placed into the animal's mouth and they then take part in swallowing it (hopefully). You don't actually ram the food down the snake's throat and I think that is a big step towards the animal eventually accepting food on its own. With the pinkie pump the animal simply gets a belly full of food without taking any part at all in the feeding process. Its a big difference in my opinion. I (unfortunately) have lots of experience with assist-feeding and, while it is not the safest method in the world, it does work wonderfully well and it is very safe for the snake if it is done gently. Mis dos centavos.

Derek Morgan

I LOVE B. caldalis and appreciate the pic. Such a cute little one and with your dedication will be a nice looking adult. Keep up the good work.

Now that I have photos I will add a pic.

Step One: put camera on Macro Mode
Step Two: tuck fingers behind camera
Step Three: im not a photographer and I like the B. caldalis picture better

Hi Mate:

Eyelashes are tough to get good close up and not get tagged. They are very quick to strike!! Good one!

Al
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Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason why so few engage in it.
(Henry Ford)

Nice pick Gavin..

Al, why are you force feeding your neo's, were they just not taking? What prey would they take in the wild at that size?

Ian

HiIan:

Good Question. They eat Geckkonids,Lacertids, & Scincids till they get to a size where Mammals, Birds and Frogs are the added to the prey list.

It's hard to find house geckos against the white blanket of snow on the ground in Pennsylvania this time of year. When you do find them they're easy to catch because is only 4 degrees outside.
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Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason why so few engage in it.
(Henry Ford)

This may be the "other technique" you mention, but I'll go ahead and pass on what a very experienced (although certifiably insane) keeper suggested when I was having trouble getting neonate sawscales to feed.

Exactly the same technique, but substitute a large sponge of approriate stiffness in place of your hand. A second sponge on a hard surface in place of the pillow will also work. This worked great for getting the food into their mouths and my fingers were never in danger.

...Of course in my case it didn't really work, but that was because they would spit out the pinky parts no matter what. Then I discovered crickets and the problems ceased...

Hi Larry:

I've tried that technique before with snakes other than Echis. As you found out neonate Echis love crickets which is a blessing.

I found the technique partialy sucessful but it's sort of like tubing the snake and pushing something into their mouths, not the proper resistance in the right place to get the job done.

Cheers!

Al

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Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason why so few engage in it.
(Henry Ford)