Reptile & Amphibian Forums

we rescued a 10' burm today and got it home it was foaming at the mouth wit hsome blood. the animal was kept in a tank with no heat in a garage and no light or humidity for apparently quit some time. when i got it home it ate 3 large rats but stuggled with them thats when i noticed it was foaming and had some blood on its gums and its mouth was sore its also weezing..i need some help i believe it has mouth rot and an upper respitory infection..what meds do i need or should it go straight to a vet? its mouth is not swollen..just alot of mucas clear mucas with some blood..so please help me with this..

I think your best bet would be to get it to a vet. It does seem to have a severe RI and probably mouth rot as well, although in cases of mouth rot they generally won't eat. Until you can get him to the vets I would bump the heat up to 90 degrees throughout the enclosure. It may at least help the RI some. Good luck and keep us informed on the outcome.

Quig

Thank you for the info i'm going to find a vet and see what can be done.I cant believe that people would do this to such an animal..thanks for the help..

Unfortunately some people get them just for showin' off. The novelty wears off in a month or two, or whenever. Then they find something else that gets their attention and the burm gets forgotten. It's VERY sad, but true. Good luck.

Quig

good news i took him to the vet he got two shots and vet said he looks good just needs tlc and some good rest.. the ri isn't as bad as we thought vet said we got him just in time..thanks for the help

That's great. Now get him healed up and post a pic so we can get a look see

Quig

np
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Bryan, Atlanta GA

1-0-0 Rescued Ball Python - Apep
0-1-0 Rescued Mountain Horned Dragon - Ki
0-0-1 Rescued Aggressive Bearded Dragon - Zeus
0-0-1 Rescued Non-Alpha Green Iguana - Bud
1-1-0 Rescued Rats... no wait... ROTTEN Little Cats - Ra, Bastet
0-0-1 Rescued Dieting Panda Hamster - Mr. Fluffy
0-1-0 Rescued Little Angelic Kitten - Isis
1-0-0 Horse... whoops... BIG Golden Retriever - Jake
0-1-0 Wife
2-0-0 Kids

I would never dispute a veterinarian but having rehabbed MANY burms with RI, and, working with some of the top herp vets in the U.S., you cannot control RI with one treatment. You are looking at giving at least a month or two of antibiotics. Hopefully, you just didn't clearly communicate the treatment. We have had excellent success using Fortaz.

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
Lake Forest, IL

>>good news i took him to the vet he got two shots and vet said he looks good just needs tlc and some good rest.. the ri isn't as bad as we thought vet said we got him just in time..thanks for the help
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

can you give me some more info on this please??? hes no longer foaming and eating fine and i cant find a vet with fortaz only baytril and they wont sell to me..

I totally agree with Mr. Carmichael. Over the years I too have worked with many burms, and yes some of them did get RI's which unfortunately,,,, happens. We never fully rehabbed one with just one treatment. Heck, my big girl got an RI this past Oct. and she had to get injections for just about a month. If possible, you may want to try to find a different herp vet, even if it's a bit of a drive. The hospital that I take my snakes to, the herp vet left and they hired a new one, and this new guy sucks. He even admitted he does not know much about Burmese Pythons. Now I have to drive about an hour and a half to take my girl to a better vet. This is just a thought....

Circusfan

I agree with everyone above. A single antibiotic injection, no matter how effective the drug, will not keep drug/serum levels high enough to eradicate the infection. This is kind of standard stuff, I"m surprised your vet thought one injection would do. Talk with your vet to make sure there wasn't a misunderstanding, mention our concerns, and then if it's still something you prefer, ask for a referal. It's important to not just leave a vet because we say something, as misunderstandings do happen.

The improvement you're seeing is probably more related to the vastly improved husbandry than the actual demise of the infection.

Ian

I have had only one experience with RI and our ball python and they gave him 5 baytril injections over 5 days. The vet said it may be overkill since it was still in the very early stages of it, but we agreed better safe than sorry since our first beardie died of a mistreated RI.
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Bryan, Atlanta GA

1-0-0 Rescued Ball Python - Apep
0-1-0 Rescued Mountain Horned Dragon - Ki
0-0-1 Rescued Aggressive Bearded Dragon - Zeus
0-0-1 Rescued Non-Alpha Green Iguana - Bud
1-1-0 Rescued Rats... no wait... ROTTEN Little Cats - Ra, Bastet
0-0-1 Rescued Dieting Panda Hamster - Mr. Fluffy
0-1-0 Rescued Little Angelic Kitten - Isis
1-0-0 Horse... whoops... BIG Golden Retriever - Jake
0-1-0 Wife
2-0-0 Kids

the vet wants me to give it pills every three days told him i would tried i called with your concerns and this was his answer told him i would try it..although now im concerned this will be interesting..
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0.1 columbian redtail (gravid)
1.0 pastel
1.0 burmese
50 rats
1.1 dwarf hamsters
0.1 wife
0.4 kids
2.0 kids
1.1 dogs
0.1 farret
3.1 mice
1.0 guinie pig

PILLS!!!! That could be REAL interesting. If you feed F/T or P/K it's as easy as putting the pill inside the rat and feeding the rat to the burm. Otherwise you lookin' at a wrasslin' match

Quig

Baytril does cause tissue necrosis at the injection site which is why it is best to switch to pill form asap. Feed it withen a rat (stick it in the rat's mouth); the injectable form can also be given orally, but will taste awefull and would probably be more of a fight in the end.

Ian

In my opinion the injections give more antibiotics than the pill form. The pills are easier, yes, but I believe the baytril injections are a better route to take. They can cause tissue necrosis, but I have found that by simply moving an inch up or down from the previous injection and then giving adequate baths during the antibiotic treatments, the chances of necrosis are lowered considerably. I myself have never had a problem with that. If you are more comfortable with the pill form, then by all means do that. This is just my two cents.

Circusfan

Many times, injectable forms of an antibiotic are more effective than with the oral route. However, pharmacokinetic studies with Baytril regarding absorption, serum levels and half-life in mammals have shown the oral tablet formulation of Baytril to be superior to the injectable form. The tablet form doesn’t show the expected initially rapid peak serum concentration that the injectable does, but the oral Baytril did show elevated serum concentrations that lasted much longer than with the injectable. This would be a definite plus considering the bactericidal effects of fluoroquinolone antibiotics like Baytril are solely concentration dependent. Also, oral Cipro, another fluoroquinolone antibiotic, has shown to be even more effective than Baytril. Even though Cipro is a metabolite of Baytril, the conversion is not 100% and it may possibly be more bactericidal than its parent compound, something that is not that unusual. Additionally, I don’t believe the injectable form of Baytril is intended to be given orally, as a specific oral formulation is also produced.

Kelly

thank you all for your response and help on this matter..we just did another rescue on a baby redtail with an bad ri..our vet gave us some rocephin for our snakes to give every 48hrs its a later version of fortaz the vet showed us this in the books..mabe we can save them both with the right medication we hope this works we will keep you all posted..thank you.
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0.1 columbian redtail (gravid) 6ft
1.0 pastel 6 1/2 ft
1.0 burmese 10ft
50 rats
1.1 dwarf hamsters
0.1 wife
0.4 kids
2.0 kids
1.1 dogs
0.1 farret
3.1 mice
1.0 guinie pig
1.0 redtail baby

I have seen Rocephin (ceftriaxone) used for deep tissue infections in boids as in stomatitis or mouth rot for example, with outstanding results, but never seen it used for RI in boids. If you don't mind, please post the outcome as I would be very interested to known what the results are of its use in this case. As your vet stated, it is very closely related to Fortaz and has even better tissue penetration. Your vet may have told you, but one trick to its use is to not reconstitute it to a concentration any stronger than 100 mg/ml. At that concentration it can be held in the refrigerator for up to 10 days. If mixed stronger than this, the holding period shortens considerably. If the concentration is doubled for example, the holding period drops to only 4 days even under refrigeration. Thanks,

Kelly

will post results no prob i just hope it works..thanks all
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0.1 columbian redtail (gravid) 6ft
1.0 pastel 6 1/2 ft
1.0 burmese 10ft
50 rats
1.1 dwarf hamsters
0.1 wife
0.4 kids
2.0 kids
1.1 dogs
0.2 farret
8.24 mice
1.0 guinie pig
1.0 redtail baby