Reptile & Amphibian Forums

We are first time snake owners. We have purchased a milk snake from a local pet store for our 14 yr. old daughter. Beautiful snake! It is about 6-inches long. Enjoys being held. My main concern is keeping it warm as we keep our house very cool (we don't run the heat above 60-62 degrees). Will the heat pad I was sold keep it warm enough? Do we need to add something extra? We are housing it in an aquarium type tank with the bottom covered in sand for reptiles. It has one hide over the heat pad and a bowl for water at the other end. The last time it was fed was 12/18 so we fed it yesterday a live pinkie (very traumatic - think we will try pre-killed next?). We were told to feed it every 1-2 weeks and not go longer than three. I have also been told not to feed it in its cage but to feed it elsewhere. I did not know this with this feeding so it was fed in its cage. What suggestions/recommendations do any of you have regarding how often to feed it, the heat maintained, etc.? As you can tell we are very much novices and any help would be appreciated.

First let me congratulate you on your first snake. I dobelieve that a comercially sold under tank heater should do fine for most milk snakes,but you neet touse a thermometer with it to besure that it is providing enough heat and also to prevent it from over-heating the snake. What type of milksnake did you get? Generally, most milks like a warm side of between 85 and 88 degrees F and no lower that 70 on the cool side. The snake will give you clues as to the temperature in the tank. If it is on the cool side or in its water dish all day it is too hot. The opposite is true if it is too cold, it will sit on the heat pad all day. I ersonally dont like sand for my milks. I prefer aspen shavings. They are easier to clean and allow the snake to burrow a bit. Plus there is no risk of impaction from ingesting sand. I feed all of my milks whenever they are hungry, but I raise my own mice, so for a snake that young, you should feed it every two weeks. Don't feed your snake too often orthey WILL get fat which cancause problems. Hope this helps.

Dave

We used a space heater last night and it got too hot. The snake was curled up in a ball as far on the cool side as it could get this morning. My daughter had shut her door with the heater on MAX. I showed her how it can fluctuate to keep the snake warm but it has an automatic shut off as it gets too warm. You can set the heater for a particular temp and it will regulate itself. I will try to find a thermometer today. Any particular type? We were at the pet store last night and I did not see one. We are learning a lot already. The snake really enjoys being held. As far as what kind? I don't know. It has the red, black and yellow bands. It has a black head. Does that tell you anything? The sand we have is calcium sand for snakes and reptiles which I bought because it is the funky shade of green her room is. We did see the aspen shavings last night. My daughter thought about getting "George" a tree branch. Do they climb? We have a little half log thing for him to hide under but nothing for him to climb on. Thanks for all the feedback! This is great!

You need a heat lamp on a timer. 12 hours on/off or so. I use newspaper or paper towels rather than reptile bark. It's much easier to clean/change and the snake can still go under it if it wants. I use a few landscaping lava rocks on the warm side in case he wants to lay on them after the light goes out. They also provide a rough surface for him to rub on when it's time to shed.

Good luck... Walt

Don't forget access to fresh/clean water. Change water when feeding (one/two pinkies every 7-10 days). Clean the water dish (my daughter uses a small crock with her corn) with soap/water occasionally and rinse well. Some people use a MILD bleach/water solution on the water dish and tank occasionally. Again RINSE a LOT.

Walt

Mine doesn't climb, so I took the branch out since this picture. However, don't use one from the woods (it might have mites/disease). You need sterilized driftwood from a pet store or reptile show.

Walt

IF ever you decide at some later time to add wood. Try the Mopani wood its like a thick "rock" type wood not thin like that. My snakes which are kings,milks climb it they love it . They couldnt,wouldnt climb thin branches like a rat snake ofcourse but the thick mopani some call it African driftwood they climb with ease as its rock like but wood.
I stack a few pieces together as they are heavy and stay in place
http://www.1driftwoodsupplier.com/images/G313a.JPG

Thats how it looks like .

Take a piece of driftwood or a nicely branched piece of dry wood... Carefully wrap tin foil around all of the branches, and place it in a 300° oven for an hour; this will sterilize the branch, and give your milksnake an additional "exercise" area.

Once and a while I turn on the lights in my terrarium and see my nelsoni climbing branches. I feel that they all like to clim is given the opportunity to do so. wpglaeser's setup allows for the snake's exploration/exericse, and looks really good IMHO!

I agree they climb and its good for them however many wont climb branches that are thin mine wont do that only thick type branches,wood.
Mine ignored the thinner branches only when I added thick wood did they climb . Its nice to watch them . Granted they mostly hide but still once or twice a week I see them drapped over the highest branch.

Heat pads for me arent any good as I to keep my house cool and they do not warm up the air that the snake breaths nor heat anything but the area directly above them NOT the air.
Since I use tanks with screen tops I use black spot light incandescent bulb (red light was no good as they hid all the time black light they dont see it red I know they did) in a dome fixture placed on one side of the tank. I adjust the bulbs output with a lamp dimmer that the dome is plugged into .
I have a baby king in a 10 gallon and the air temp on one side of the tank is 85 and the cooler area is 75 and this is just a small 10 gallon tank.
My other snakes are in bigger tanks so easier to get a better temp gradient. Heat pads are great if the room isnt to cold but at the temp your keeping him the air in the tank will be to cool with a heat pad.
I keep my house at 65 and prefer overhead heat. they are much more active at night with overhead heat. They climb the driftwood and even seem to enjoy "basking" in the warm area by hanging out on the wood by the light.
When I used heating pad they for the most part just stayed directly over it all the time and rarely ventured out at night as air temp was to cool.
What type milk did you get?
Luis

I guess heat pads workfine for me because I keep my house arounda balmy 80Fdue toallof the sunlamps for the beardies and iguanas.

Dave

1.0.1 Berdies (Smaug and Helios)
1.1 Cal Kings
0.0.2 green Iguanas (Achilles and Zim)
0.1 Leopard geckos
1.1 Tri-Color Hondos
1.0 Hypo Hondos (Tigger)
1.1 Sinaloan Milksnakes
0.1 Ball Pythons

At that temp heat pad is great . If I had warmer temps I would use a heat pad since cheaper to run and great belly heat but in cool rooms they dont do much .
My friend who has a snake "collection" in Miami doesnt use any extra heat at all infact he uses his ac in the snake room when temps get to warm but he does have a heat pad under each enclosure that he plugs in during the rare cold spells.

a digital readout therm with prob keeps you informed of precise temp in and out of cage. bought at a radio shack store. i use them. around $10 to $14 bucks.
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I may be old , cantankerous, crabby, and cynical, but......

All of this input is great. I went home for lunch and my daughter was holding George. He seems no worse for wear from his "baking" last night from the space heater. We will get a therm probably tomorrow so we can better monitor temps. Any body got any ideas as to how big he will get? The pet store said 3-4 feet. I will take his picture and try to post it tomorrow. He is really pretty.

The thermometers at radio shack are great. I use several of them myself. One trick I used very successfully for maintaining temp. in screen top cages is covering half to two-thirds of the top with a towel. This will also help with humidity in the cage, how humid the cage needs to be will very with the what type of milk you have. The over head black light is great for heat when you are keeping one snake, There are even thermostats you can buy that the light fixture will plug in to that are easily set to the desired temp., they even have a probe that can be placed in the cage. (for this application I use the ESU brand) My small milks are always fed a pinky every 5-7 days untill the pinky starts to leave no visable "lump" then I start feeding them two at a time every 7-10 days. One major word of advice Baby milks are escape artists, The two best tools I found for keeping them in screen top cages are 1: Make sure there is a good hiding place 2: Tape, Tape, Tape, I will use a good quality electrical tape (scotch 33) or masking tape and run a band around the cage where the top and tank meet.
I do not think any one answered your question about feeding them in a some where besides their cage. My answer is it will help then to not associate your hand with food and you can feed them in a clear rubber made type box with small 3/16 holes drilled in the sides and no substrate (eliminates the possibility of them swallowing anything but food when eating) again tape the box shut. Hope this helps.

Fortunately, the cage we purchased has a slide on top that snaps shut.

As for the feeding, thanks for that info. We were thinking based on what we were told is as they got larger, the prey would get larger therefore feeding would decrease as we had larger prey. I see what you mean, for the babies because they may not be growing fast enough to eat larger prey so you stick with the multiple pinkies for a while. Am I understanding you correctly? We were told it would be several years before George would reach full grown length. Come to think of it, I have no idea how old he is. I will try to find that out also as that seems to also determine how often he would be fed. The last pinkie had almost no lump in him at all. What are your thoughts on pre-killed versus live? The first feeding was very traumatic for my daughter so I am thinking pre-killed is the way to go so she does not have to hear all the crying. It really upset her.

I really appreciate you taking the time to help us adjust to our new addition. I apologize for my rambling, I just want to take proper care of the little guy(?).

Yes you understood about the feeding. What I have found is that the food item should not leave a large lump in the snake, some lump is fine. I have feed many live pinkies when I was breeding mice and keeping alot of snakes and yes they often make a lot of noise. I now order frozen pinkies and simply thaw then out in warm water. I always use pre killed when feeding hoppers and up, I made the mistake of using live on one of my first snake and the next day had a live mouse and dead snake. You do need to try to find out what type of milk you have so you can provide a proper substrate, humidity, and so on. Good luck!

I know what you mean about the traumatic feeding of live vs. pre killed. We had some friends over and I was feeding my milks and one of their kids got attatched to a fuzzy just before I dropped him in with the snake. My kids on the other hand love to see the snakes in action. They understand that it's all part of the cycle of life. On the subject of feeding in a seperate container, My kids like to handle the snakes so I feed the all in paper lunch sacks when they are small and bigger bags when they are larger. I fold the top down and clip it closed so the snake can't get out. if they won't eat right away I'll put them on a worm heating pad or something and that helps sometimes. the paper bag works well because there is nothing to distract the snake and it is dark, like a mouse burrow where it would eat in the wild. All of my milks grew very quick, most doubled their size in three months. Yours maygrow slower or faster depending on the species. From the colors that you gave I'm guessing that you probably got a Pueblan milk snake, since they match the colors and they are popular with pet stores. There are other posibilities though. Another good resource for information on keeping milksnakes is www.applegatereptiles.com . I personaly know Robert Applegate as a member of the San Diego Herp Society and he has been breeding Kings and Milks for over 40 years. On his web site he has a book called "The Care and Maintenance of Milksnakes" the book is out of print, but he has a link to the book so you can read it online. I learned alot of what I know through that boo and talking with that man. I would also recoment seeing if there is a Herp or Reptile society neer you. Most are full of great people who have great experience to share or know someone who can get you the answers you need. Sorry for rambling on, but as you can see from my list of herps that I love all things reptile. Thanks for listening.

Dave

1.0.1 Berdies (Smaug and Helios)
1.1 Cal Kings
0.0.2 green Iguanas (Achilles and Zim)
0.1 Leopard geckos
1.1 Tri-Color Hondos
1.0 Hypo Hondos (Tigger)
1.1 Sinaloan Milksnakes
0.1 Ball Pythons

I almost feel like an expert with all of the great advice given so far. What is the best way to go about finding out what kind of snake George is? I will go to the web site mentioned and see what I can find there.

I like the paper bag idea as for feeding. My daughter wanted to try to feed him in the bath tub but I told her we have no way to keep him warm and even if we put a heat pad under a towel or something he could climb out via the cord. We also have some huge butter tubs we can use while he is small.

We used the space heater again last night but it was better regulated and we have covered the top. I went in to check on him this morning and he was right in the middle of the cage. He even lifted his head as I came in so he seemed a little more content. I know they sense a lot with their tongues. Do they hear at all? I am thinking voice recognition but I could just be overly excited that he lifted his head as I was talking to him.

Again, thank you from the bottom of my heart for all of the great support and advice. I hope you don't tire of my antics and inexperience.

To answer your question on snake hearing, they do no hear in the way that you would think. They sense the vibrations in their environment. Snakes rely more on sight and smell. Your snake probably lifted his head in response to your entering the room from a vibration from your foot steps, a change in light, or your movement in general. Some snakes may begin to recognise their keepers by smell. They can start to associate your smell with care and food. Sometimes the association with food can be so strong with a hungry snake that it may nip at you. So when you want to hold your snake, make sure you don't smell like it's favorite food. A wiggling finger can me mistaken for a pinkie. But if you feed your snake on a regular basis, they usualy wont bite out of hunger.

I also know you feel about being inexperienced. I was the same way too. There is still alot that I don't know, but I just researched the heck out of everything, trying to learn all there was to know. I have always loved reptiles, but I have only recently been keeping them in numbers. The internet is a wonderful too for information. I would have been totaly lost without in and my reptiles would not have been getting the best care possible. Now I am startin to breed them and I have found that I still have alot to learn. Keep at it and you will feel like a pro in no time.

As for identifying your snake, one of the fastest ways would to be to ask the pet store where you got it. Another would be to post a couple of pictures here and you should get an answer in no time. I hope all of this helps and that George lives a happy long life.

Dave

1.0.1 Berdies (Smaug and Helios)
1.1 Cal Kings
0.0.2 green Iguanas (Achilles and Zim)
0.1 Leopard geckos
1.1 Tri-Color Hondos
1.0 Hypo Hondos (Tigger)
1.1 Sinaloan Milksnakes
0.1 Ball Pythons

I went to the web site and printed off the book for my daughter and I to read. From the pictures on his web site George is colored the most like a New Mexico milk or a Pueblan. The pet store tells me it is a Pueblan and he was hatched about three months ago.

Should we feed him again Saturday? I want him to grow but I don't want to over do it. We fed him Monday. Saturday would be five days or should we wait until Monday for the seventh day?

Like I said, all snakes are different. I feed mine when they are hungry. For a snake that young, every seven days is fine. It's not too short and not too long. By that time they will be hungry. If you try and feed him on Saturday He may eat, but then again he may not. But by monday he should be ready for another. If he does not want it then, don't worry he may still be full. I've had snakes that would eat every day if you let them and others that wouldn't eat for three to four weeks. As long as he doesn't get too skinny and stays active he'll be fine. Don't worry about him growing, trust me. At one Pink a week, he will grow. I would also recomend getting a small notebook (nothing fancy, just a 3 x 5 spiral would be fine) and keep track of when he eats and how much. Also keep track of when he sheds. By doing this you will begin to notice paterns. He will probably lose interest in food about three days before he sheds and probably won't want to eat for another three days after the shed. My neonate snakes shed about every three to four weeks, depending on how fast they are growing. Don't forget to increase the size of the meal as he grows. Pinks are perfect for right now, but when they stop leaving a small lump after eating it's time to go to the next size up. But for now sick with pinks. In about two or three weeks try and offer two pinks, and maybe three if he seems to be eating them fast. You don't want the snake to over stretch himself by eating something too big for him, but you can feed smaller meals more often. But at some point you will want to get bigger mice (5-6 pinks at a time can get expensive vs. a fuzzy or hopper. When in doubt smaller is better. You can always try a bigger mouse at the next feeding.
Based on what you have told me, he is a Pueblan Milk (Common for pet stores, and I haven't seen too many New Mexicos in the stores). It seems that you guys are off to a great start.

Dave

1.0.1 Berdies (Smaug and Helios)
1.1 Cal Kings
0.0.2 green Iguanas (Achilles and Zim)
0.1 Leopard geckos
1.1 Tri-Color Hondos
1.0 Hypo Hondos (Tigger)
1.1 Sinaloan Milksnakes
0.1 Ball Pythons

He had shed the week before Christmas so we aren't expecting that again a for another three weeks or so.

What is a "fuzzy" and a "hopper"?

Can we put the aspen shavings over the sand or is it better to take the sand out all together? If he is not eating in the cage does the sand become an issue?

Sorry, more questions. The more I read the more I keep coming up with.

My prefrence is to take out the sand all together. I just don't like to take chances, that's all. Plus, sand is harderto clean andyou never really get all of it. With aspen, you just grabthe clump and go. I change it all about once a month. A fuzzy is a new born mouse that is about a week old and has just begun to growsome "peach fuzz". A hopper is about a two week old or so mouse. They gotthat name because they seem to hop around like popcorn for almost no reason at that point.

Dave

1.0.1 Berdies (Smaug and Helios)
1.1 Cal Kings
0.0.2 green Iguanas (Achilles and Zim)
0.1 Leopard geckos
1.1 Tri-Color Hondos
1.0 Hypo Hondos (Tigger)
1.1 Sinaloan Milksnakes
0.1 Ball Pythons

Posted by: peublan at Wed Dec 28 15:18:19 2005 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

The thermometers at radio shack are great. I use several of them myself. One trick I used very successfully for maintaining temp. in screen top cages is covering half to two-thirds of the top with a towel

Sheet or two of tinfoil works great to holds in heat very well.