Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Back in July I talked to this girl who had 2 leos to send me because she couldn't keep them anymore and I run a small reptile rescue. I carefully explained how to ship them and everything and she got back to me telling me her sister was going to ship them out. Well, it didn't happen at that time. I'd forgotten about the whole thing because she kept saying "Oh I'm going to ship them out.. I'm going to.." but it never happened. This morning UPS comes to my door bearing a cold as ice box with a crapload of little holes poked in it full of ice cold newspaper and in the bottom were 2 leos in 2 containers with 2 little tiny hand warmer heatpacks... maybe 1 inch square. Both the leos were ice cold... the female was half frozen and dead even after being warmed up. The male though showed signs of life when put in some warm water so we got him started in that then put him on a heating pad for almost half an hour just to get him breathing and moving a bit. Right now he's on a heating pad, in a moist container with a heat light on until I see him moving a bit more normally. How can people be so ignorant? How can they fail to contact me to let me know the geckos had finally been sent out? So now I have 2 geckos in the freezer to bury come spring (the other is another rescue with major MBD) and one who may end up the same way... If I can't get him moving around well and keep any URI away from him. He's a beautiful little thing.. just a normal, but unlike most normals, he's got the same grey eyes a blizzard has...but he's most definately a normal. I've never seen a normal/high yellow with this color eyes... its wierd... but his pupils react to light and he's able to see...

I'm just so frustrated with people right now... this box was ridiculous especially considering that the directions I gave were for warmer weather shipping and she never got in touch with me again...

He's been dubbed Lazarus in the last few hours since he's now moving around and trying to eat. Not coordinated enough as yet to actually catch food but he's getting there and at least trying.

Have you guys ever seen a normal with such light eyes? Sorry for the blurriness... I was being quick with the camera...

Those were the best pics I could get at the moment... Digital zoom is a pain in the butt...
-----
Lucien

1.1 Columbian Redtail Boa (BCI)(Sutekh and Isis)
5.11.Leopard geckos (1.2 Blizzards (Caine, Phoenix, and Mirage), 0.2 Tangerine Albinos (Tequila Sunrise ...Tiki for short, and Casper), 1.0 Tremper Albino (Mycah), 0.3 Poss. Het. Albino (Annika, Lace, and Aris), 1.1 dbl. het blizzard x tang albino (Malice, Malfeas), 1.0 Full Stripe Chocolate Tremper Albino (Discord), 0.1 pastel (Raven) and 1.2 Normals)
0.1 Savannah Monitor (Kiros) (R.I.P. November 18, 2005)
13 rats (plus pups)
2 Dogs (Loki and Storm)
2 cats (Ashe and Hercules)

WOW that really makes you sick to your stomach. It is amazing just how absolutely stupid some people can be. Just when you think you've seen it all, along comes a bigger idiot.

That male is a very nice looking norm for sure. I sure hope he pulls through after all she has put him through, he deserves a good life Good Luck with him !!

I understand your frustration, that is terrible.

Sort of reminds me of my last experience shipping reptiles. I purchased a leo from a reptile rescue in Texas. The lady seemed like she cared enough about her animals. The price seemed steep (150/shipped for 27 g tang female), but I was excited to help save this creature's existence. It apparently had been bred from Urban parents and was neglected because of a failed breeding project. The pics I had showed a healthy gecko, no signs of malnourishment.

Anyway, the gecko came in a box outside of the plastic deli container, its fecal appeared to have sand, and it was so frightened, I was afraid to even move it. The lady who sent it realized how skinny and frail its tail was so she started pumping it with wax worms. funny thing she says, 'it wouldn't eat anything else' after the steady diet of wax worms (go figure).

I've handled quite a few leos and have another of my own. This was by far the most neglected and malnourished leo i have seen. It took weeks to get her to eat. I tried crix, mealies, pedialyte , nothing til i started hand feeding for the next few weeks and finally got a reaction from her. She is still far from 'ok', but is improving slowly.

I am sympathetic to this thread and I realize that this happens both ways. Fortunately, there are some of us who care enough to make sacrifices to save those who can't save themselves.

"Rescue" and "Purchase" are two terms that should be mutually exclusive. I'm ok with a small adoption fee to help cover a bit of the feeding/housing/medication costs and I have zero problems with a shipping charge. HOWEVER....you paid basically $100 for a gecko, and $50 for shipping - there are plenty of non-rescues that don't go for that much. You got taken, and I would be plenty mad if I were in your shoes.

Adopting and rescues should only be undertaken by people willing to shoulder the burden. This person that SOLD you the gecko should be ashamed about claiming to be a rescue. I'm surprised you didn't question it.

There are so many things wrong about that whole situation that I'm just flabbergasted right now.
-----
Official Leopard Gecko Herder

6:12 Leos Getting to have too many to name here!
2:0 Cats - Troi and Mitsu (shhhhh...don't tell them they're neutered!)
4:0 Betas - So pretty, yet so violent!
1:0 Husband - Eric (He's a lot of work, but it's worth it.)

Kendergirl, thanks for your concern. You've helped me with a number of issues related to that gecko.

The sad thing is, she's a well known rescue group and she does business selling rescued leos through kingsnake classifieds. She was so upset by my complaints that she won't even respond to my emails any more.

I was beyond aggitated for months about this. The original picture showed a healthy pic, it was impossible to know it had a "pencil tail." I explained to the lady that I think she needed an extensive vet appointment, but the lady refused to acknowledge the expense. She turned it around on me and said that I need to be able to take care of my animals before buying them.

This is a quote:

"She was fine when she left my place to the best of my knowledge. When you get an animal, you must be able to care for it. I have spent up to $300 on a Reptile for the first Vet visit. If you can't care for her, I will be glad to get her back and have her seen by a vet."

I wasn't about to ship a gecko that was just shipped in a box with little protection for the animal.The lady made it seem like I should be expected to absorb the cost of an expensive vet visit after I just handed over 150$ for an animal that was supposidly healthy. I hand-fed this leo for nearly a month, I hope she makes it...Also, the leo was supposed to be a specific weight to match a potential cagemate: she was nearly 15 grams less than I was told. Also, it was supposed to be a female and I'm pretty sure as it gets older that its a male.

I do think I remember the leo you are talking about. No animal should be sold in that shape, and the packing was awful (didn't it get out of the tub?), and it's even worse that you were expecting a healthy (or at least healthier) animal. It sounds to me as if she were respocible for the condition of the gecko instead of being a helper and care provider. The waxworms you mentioned sounds as if it was a last minute attempt to not look so bad. If she got the gecko in poor shape, and it only got worse in her care then she should have either kept it until it was healthy, or given it (for free) to someone with the time, money, and passion to do a better job.

How is it doing? Getting fat and happy I hope!

I just rescued 2 leos myself a few days ago. They had dropped their tails and are less than a month old, one had a really bad shed. Luckly, they are both doing good and eating well, making the "rescue" part quite easy. I had vowed to never get petstore geckos again, but they needed some good care. I'm glad I did because they really are VERY sweet for how little they are.

I have real admiration for those who rescue on a regular basis. It's tough work, and can be heart breaking at times. When you do a good job, it's a great feeling!! Those who bring back the pencil-thin starved geckos are my heros!

Noel Adopted 12/26/05

Serenity Adopted 12/26/05

-----
Official Leopard Gecko Herder

6:12 Leos Getting to have too many to name here!
2:0 Cats - Troi and Mitsu (shhhhh...don't tell them they're neutered!)
4:0 Betas - So pretty, yet so violent!
1:0 Husband - Eric (He's a lot of work, but it's worth it.)

I don't think it's ignorance so much as uncaring. Only someone extreamly idiotic wouldn't know that a reptile is cold-blooded and affacted by heat (or the lack of it).

It's a shame that the one was lost when you got it. On the bright side, the guy ,at the very least, looks like he was well fed. Hopefully he won't suffer any ill effect from being nearly frozen to death.

Did you try to contact them to tell them they are responcible for the death of the female?
-----
Official Leopard Gecko Herder

6:12 Leos Getting to have too many to name here!
2:0 Cats - Troi and Mitsu (shhhhh...don't tell them they're neutered!)
4:0 Betas - So pretty, yet so violent!
1:0 Husband - Eric (He's a lot of work, but it's worth it.)

When I can find her contact information again, yeah she's getting a few phone calls from me. These were animals I thought I was getting in back in August/September so I gave her warmer weather shipping directions. I think the problem came in where the owner was at school and her sister and father were caring for the geckos. They sent them out at this time of year without the owner's knowledge because I told the actual owner that they would need to contact me again when they decided to ship the geckos so I could be sure the information was up to date and for them to give me a tracking number on the box. It was a mixup of monumental proportions and one that the people who packaged them are responsible for.

Tonight, the newly coined Lazarus, is doing well.. trying to eat even though I doubt he's ready to do so yet...His temps are going to stay slightly above normal for the next week or so... The only reason I knew he was alive was because the tip of his tail moved a tiny bit... thats when he got thawed out in warm water and then moved to a human heating pad. We'll fight to save him. I have all the necessary stuff here to do it since the reptile vet I have here is less than reliable when it comes to his knowledge or lackthereof. And this after another rescue I got in 6 weeks ago had to be euthanized due to severe MBD... he jaw was so soft she couldn't eat on her own at all...it would just bend when she tried. She was 4 years old and the size of a 15 gram hatchling. I've had my successes too... a Box turtle who'd been mauled by a dog... a leo that came from a petshop in such poor condition the owner didn't know what to do. 2 rescued boas... one from someone who was feeding him pinkie rats still at the age of 9 months... But its always the losses you question repeatedly...could I have done anything different...in this case..I don't know what I could have done... I worked on reviving the female for half an hour but she was limp in my hands... the male started moving his tail and his toes started twitching.. so there was still life there.. but the female had passed before I got them.. Now I have to watch for signs of URI with him though I already know he's got some minor nerve damage.. his coordination is a bit off even though he's fully warmed up. He's a beautiful boy and with time I think he'll recover.. its a guarded prediction though but he has attempted eating already and I'm planning on giving him a dose of Jumpstart sometime today...that stuff has worked miracles on some of my rescues..some of the other appetite stimulants may not be what they claim but Jumpstart definately is. This guy has a full life-time home with me now... He's not going anywhere else if he lives out the next week. He's been through hell and came back from it. That deserves the reward of a permanent home...
-----
Lucien

1.1 Columbian Redtail Boa (BCI)(Sutekh and Isis)
5.11.Leopard geckos (1.2 Blizzards (Caine, Phoenix, and Mirage), 0.2 Tangerine Albinos (Tequila Sunrise ...Tiki for short, and Casper), 1.0 Tremper Albino (Mycah), 0.3 Poss. Het. Albino (Annika, Lace, and Aris), 1.1 dbl. het blizzard x tang albino (Malice, Malfeas), 1.0 Full Stripe Chocolate Tremper Albino (Discord), 0.1 pastel (Raven) and 1.2 Normals)
0.1 Savannah Monitor (Kiros) (R.I.P. November 18, 2005)
13 rats (plus pups)
2 Dogs (Loki and Storm)
2 cats (Ashe and Hercules)

I'm sure you will do your best with him. He's very pretty, and looks pretty good concidering what he went thru. I'm sure with your help he will live a long, healthy, happy life.
-----
www.LeopardGeckoBreeder.com

www.LeopardGeckoArt.com

5.13.1 Leos
1.0 Peach Fronted Conure
0.0.2 Red Ear Sliders
1.0 Pembroke Corgi
0.2 Cats
8 fish

what are u going to do with that leo? keep it?

As I stated in my second post, this guy won't be subjected to shipping again. He's been through enough hell and has earned himself a permanent home. If he survives and starts gaining weight for me he'll even get a couple of girls for company down the road sometime.. but yes I'll be keeping him. I keep most of my leos that I rescue and some of them go into my breeding projects. I have a few that are just pets but the bulk are my breeders. I have a waiting list for my hatchlings at the moment thats 2 pages long. Its going to take me 2 breeding seasons to get everyone taken care of *L*

-----
Lucien

1.1 Columbian Redtail Boa (BCI)(Sutekh and Isis)
5.11.Leopard geckos (1.2 Blizzards (Caine, Phoenix, and Mirage), 0.2 Tangerine Albinos (Tequila Sunrise ...Tiki for short, and Casper), 1.0 Tremper Albino (Mycah), 0.3 Poss. Het. Albino (Annika, Lace, and Aris), 1.1 dbl. het blizzard x tang albino (Malice, Malfeas), 1.0 Full Stripe Chocolate Tremper Albino (Discord), 0.1 pastel (Raven) and 1.2 Normals)
0.1 Savannah Monitor (Kiros) (R.I.P. November 18, 2005)
13 rats (plus pups)
2 Dogs (Loki and Storm)
2 cats (Ashe and Hercules)