Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Welcome to kingsnake.com's message board system. Here you may share and discuss information with others about your favorite reptile and amphibian related topics such as care and feeding, caging requirements, permits and licenses, and more. Launched in 1997, the kingsnake.com message board system is one of the oldest and largest systems on the internet.

Click for 65% off Shipping with Reptiles 2 You
Click for ZooMed
Click for 65% off Shipping with Reptiles 2 You

Veield cham leyed eggs last night....incubation tips..?? Help

mchiara Dec 29, 2005 12:08 PM

My fem cham, Sunshine, layed eggs last night after 3 days of pacing the cage, branches and sand. She was bred 26 days ago. The entire process of ovodeposition took more than 12 hours. This morning I saw her still filling up the hole and napping every now and then in the process. After 1 1/2 hour, I had to leave for work but I wanted to move the eggs in the incubator so I had to move her form the hole, by this time filled, but she was busy with the final touch, tampering the sand. So I moved her on a branch where she had a couple of crickets. As soon as I was done diggin eggs and covered the hole, she went back on the sand and...finished the job I have interrupted!

She look fine this morning, will check her again as soon as I get home. Eggs count is at least 47, but since there where so many cups around I believe I din't count a cup of 10...will redo the count tonight, could be 57....wonder if that was really the first time she got bred. For sure was the first time since I have her.
Other than the count, what should I look for on the eggs?
How far apart to you incubate them?
What is the humidity in the incubator? What the temp in the cup and in the incubator? DO you start low 70s to raise 78-80 after few months as I read somewhere? Do you do the night drop in temperature?

Thank you,

Chiara

Replies (9)

kinyonga Dec 29, 2005 01:32 PM

I was going to email you last night to tell you not to worry yet about her not laying the eggs...but now its not necessary!
I'm glad she got through the whole process well...now you have a different "worry"...hatching them. Chameleons can drive us crazy!

That's a huge clutch! It could very well have been from one breeding. In my experience the number of eggs laid has to do with the amount of food available when the female is starting to produce the "seeds" for the clutch. (IMHO they need to be fed well just after layinng the eggs and again when they are in the process of producing the eggs, but need to be cut down inbetween to some extent to prevent huge clutches.)

You asked..."Other than the count, what should I look for on the eggs? How far apart to you incubate them? What is the humidity in the incubator? What the temp in the cup and in the incubator? DO you start low 70s to raise 78-80 after few months as I read somewhere? Do you do the night drop in temperature?"...I have hatched veiled eggs for many years and this is what I do...

I use a tupperware type container about 15" x 12" x4". I punch three or four tiny holes in the lid for ventilation. I fill the container about half full of slightly moist vermiculite (coarse grained type...you shouldn't be able to squeeze more than a drop of water out of a fistful of the vermiculite). The reason I only fill it half full is to leave some room for the hatchlings to move around once they have hatched until they can be removed from the container.

I lay the eggs in the container in rows that are spread about 2/3" apart in all directions. This causes the eggs to hatch individually but I have always felt that it gives them the chance to be the best they can be.

I put the lid back on and incubate them at about 78F. My incubator is not closed in....its very "primitive"...and thus allows the temperature to fluctuate with the room temperature to some degree. The humidity is usually steady inside the container and only my removing the lid once in a while to check the eggs affects the humidity in the container. If the eggs start to dent in then I add a little water around the container's edges...never on the eggs.

At this temperature, expect the eggs to hatch around 250 days...but don't be surprised if this varies. I've known them to hatch sooner than that and later too.

Some of the eggs she laid may be infertile, depending on the time within her cycle that she was mated. I always incubate all the eggs even if they look infertile. It won't harm the fertile eggs to leave the infertile ones in there for a while. Infertile eggs will look smaller and less white and will usually mold or go bad in a week or so and can be removed when you are sure they are not fertile.

If you have any more questions, just ask and I'll do my best to answer them.

mchiara Dec 29, 2005 05:49 PM

Thank you, these are many advices to follow. and Yep, final count is 57. Curious thing is that I thought to do her a favour to put her back in her original cage (260 gal, lots vegetation and male, I read they are ready to breed for another 2 months after ovodeposition, so I felt OK) since she loooked so unhappy in the small cage. The male run to her right away and she puy on her worning color as when she was pregnant at the sight of the male. Sending few pics. Obviously she went back in the smaller cage. What does this mean? I read they may produce several clutches from 1 breeding. Could she be pregnant again?? or it is part of those 60 days of non readiness for breeding?

kinyonga Dec 29, 2005 07:26 PM

You're welcome!

Normally a female veiled will not be receptive to mating again for several weeks or longer and will fight the male to avoid it if need be...so its a definite no-no to put them together so soon.

You said.." I read they are ready to breed for another 2 months after ovodeposition"...that also means that they won't get along together for that length of time. I never keep an adult male veiled with an adult female veiled together (or even two females, for that matter)for any other reason than mating. Its too stressful for both of them...so what you need is another big cage, I guess.

You said..."I read they may produce several clutches from 1 breeding. Could she be pregnant again?? or it is part of those 60 days of non readiness for breeding?" Its quite possible that she is retaining sperm from him...so she might not even mate with him for quite a period of time....but generally a female veiled won't retain enough sperm for another whole clutch and will need to be mated in a few weeks.

To tell if she is ready to mate, hold her outside the male's cage where she can see him. If she's receptive/needs to mate she will keep her calm colors. If she turns to her gravid/dark coloration and hisses and sways, etc. then don't even think about putting her in his cage...just put her back in her own cage and try again a few days later.

mchiara Dec 29, 2005 07:58 PM

Hi,

yes, I am shopping for a new cage. She was permamently housed with the male for months before they mate and both were very fine, afterall the cage was large enough to avoid each other. Apparently, I cannot do that anymore. I was not going to breed her again, and actually, I hope she didn't retain any sperm. After that clutch she might need some time off.
I just wanted to put her back in the cage where she's been doing great for months before they bred.

Thanks,

Chiara

lele Dec 29, 2005 07:37 PM

57 eggs! that is huge!

Do you normally keep them housed together? Other than for the act of mating it is not recommended. Considering what she just went thru I would avoid stressing her in any way. Her poor little body needs to do some "healing" and stress can really cause some problems. She needs to get her strength up so keep her well hydrated and fed. You also want to make sure her calcium level is good, too. If you are definitely going to breed her again you might want to do a calcium check at the vet (not too expensive; once she close to when you think she is ready) to make sure it is in a good range. I am sure many people will disagree and say the vet trip will stress her, but the way Luna's calcium dipped after a clutch and all that I went thru with her, I just think it is a prudent thing to do. Just my opinion. ;-/

Also, if you mate her again are you ready for another 50 babies in a couple months? Whew! Btw, how old is she?

Congrats!
lele
-----
Chameleon Help & Resource Info

0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.1 Mad. Hissers and she is on the loose!
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet

mchiara Dec 29, 2005 08:08 PM

Hi,

Just replied to another post that might answer some of your questions. Anyway, no, I wasn't going to breed her again since the huge clutch, I agree she needs rest for a while or more. She was permanently housed with the male and they did great for several months until I moved her after they bred. Since she didn't look happy in the small cage (probably she just wasn't happy to be pregnant!) I thought to make her happy moving her back in her original cage....trial lasted only 15 seconds, or even less! Now she is green all the time (no more brownish colors!) and the chin edema is completely GONE!)

When I got both they told they were around 9 months old. Now she could be ~14 month or so.

Chiara

lele Dec 29, 2005 08:19 PM

I saw your reply right after I posted mine - we crossed in cyber space! Btw, I just emailed you via this thread.


-----
Chameleon Help & Resource Info

0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.1 Mad. Hissers and she is on the loose!
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet

WillHayward Dec 29, 2005 11:48 PM

57 Eggs?!?!

WOW. If only I could ger that with my Panther Chameleons!

Congratulations Mamma! You better get some baby cages ready!
-----
CANADIAN CHAMELEONS

mchiara Dec 30, 2005 05:47 AM

I heard/read it takes up to 9 months, 7 being the average.....now I have to get a cage for my female, then will think about the babies

Happy New Year!

Chiara

Site Tools