Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Picked up a pair of Kisatchie corns from Jim Sargent out of Split Rock Reptiles. Brazos county Tx. locality Here's a pic of the female.

Steve

These are large hatchlings by cornsnake standards. They are closer with my Emoryi rat as far as hatchling size. Thanks for looking.

Steve

I was just wondering. last I heard kisatchie was a ssp of corn. Am I the only one who thinks they should be considered a ssp of emoryi? What seperates them?
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1.0 Ball Python "Wilson" (Castaway)
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Onyx"

>>I was just wondering. last I heard kisatchie was a ssp of corn. Am I the only one who thinks they should be considered a ssp of emoryi? What seperates them?
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Vaughan, et al, were the last to study the guttata/emoryi group, and called this snake the Texas corn, Elaphe guttata guttata. A guy, named Burbrink, I think, called slowinskii a separate species, and named it after a herpetologist of that name. That has not been well accepted and most herpers consider it a subspecies of corn, imo. It may be shown to intergrade with G.P. rats someday too. This group is still much up in the air as far as taxonomy goes. A genetic study is still ongoing I believe, as Vaughan, et al, just used scalation, color/pattern, size, etc, to determine classification. It had been separated before their study also.

Recently, a new Texas field guide has come out and the authors call the Great Plains rat, Elaphe emoryi. I believe they call the TX corn (Kisatchie), E. guttata slowinskii, but don't have the book in front of me. Whether a species or subspecies, I don't think you can call it a Great Plains rat (emoryi).

I think it all boils down to whether slowinskii is intergrading with corn snakes in LA, and how closely related they are genetically. In my mind that will be proven and we will have to consider them one species someday, So, I call them Pantherophis (Elaphe) guttatus slowinskii.

Hope that helps....TC

Hey Phiber
The emoryi and slowinskii are both ssp of Pantherophis guttatus guttatus.
Although they look very similar, DNA has proven them to be 2 seperate ssp.
Brian

>>I was just wondering. last I heard kisatchie was a ssp of corn. Am I the only one who thinks they should be considered a ssp of emoryi? What seperates them?
>>-----
>>0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
>>1.0 Ball Python "Wilson" (Castaway)
>>1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
>>.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
>>0.0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Onyx"
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RATS
1.0 Corn snake "Warpath"(KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Great plains rat snake "Reign Fire" (TX locale)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)

Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

Great looking snakes, Steve, and very interesting taxonomically. If you call them corns, I think you need to use E. guttata slowinskii, however Terry

but is it a elaphe or Pan. or Boger. now scientific latin name ?
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I may be old , cantankerous, crabby, and cynical, but......

Pantherophis guttatus slowinskii
Brian

>>but is it a elaphe or Pan. or Boger. now scientific latin name ?
>>-----
>>I may be old , cantankerous, crabby, and cynical, but......
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RATS
1.0 Corn snake "Warpath"(KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Great plains rat snake "Reign Fire" (TX locale)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)

Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

>>Pantherophis guttatus slowinskii
>>Brian
>>

I posted on Corn Snake Forum that Dixon and Werler (see link), 2005, calls them Elaphe guttata slowinskii, but I agree with Brian and call them, Pantherophis guttatus slowinskii. The reason is because of the paper of Utiger, et al, I think in 2002, that showed the N. A. ratsnakes are not as closely related to Old World Elaphe as they are to other Lampropeltines, including Lampropeltis. I believe New World ratsnakes deserve their own genus

TC

Slowinski's Corn

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Ratsnake Haven...researching ratsnakes since 1988

Ratsnake Haven Group...an information providing list site.

Nice looking pair Steve!! Im going to get one of those as well!! Dang they are nice looking!
Brian

>>Picked up a pair of Kisatchie corns from Jim Sargent out of Split Rock Reptiles. Brazos county Tx. locality Here's a pic of the female.
>>
>>Steve
>>
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RATS
1.0 Corn snake "Warpath"(KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Great plains rat snake "Reign Fire" (TX locale)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)

Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

>>Nice looking pair Steve!! Im going to get one of those as well!! Dang they are nice looking!
Brian

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. I saw the pics of the adult breeders on Jim's website, and I had to have one, LOL

steve