Reptile & Amphibian Forums

For all of you guys who want to know about what it's like to see a wild Eastern Indigo, there are 2 among us who have probably observed as many wild Easterns as anyone who doesn't live in Eastern Indigo range.
Bob Assetto and Rick Printz wouldn't brag, but they've herped from PA to Florida, to Texas and God-knows where else, and have great field experience and knowledge, ranging over decades.
I know Bob was one of the first, possibly THE first?, person to breed Gray-Banded Kings in the US.
They are both aging badly. Better to address your questions really soon. (Just kidding!)
Steve B.

and fat...............

I think Bern Tryon actually reproduced the grey-banded kings and ridge-nose rattlesnakes at his place in 1977. I was at the Dallas Zoo from 76-82 and we reproduced them soon after he did and published a joint paper on the subject. It is possible that private collectors bred them earlier but did not publish on the event.

Glad to see some old-time herpers on this forum and sounds like people have really worked to preserve the easterns as well as the other subspecies. I agree that the easterns probably are not in as bad a shape in the wild as reported. We had researchers in the Texas determine within just a couple of studies that the gray-banded king was over-collected and very rare. They protected them and many other herps for approximately 10 years until Ken Magnuson finally coordinated an effort with the local Herp Societies and forced, by legal manuvering on his part, to repeal the State laws. In this case it was warranted, I don't know with the eastern indigo myself, if a threatened status is correct or not.

I do know that if enough people do get tired of unfair government pressure they can do something about it in groups, at least at the State level, Federal may be a bit harder.

Cheers and Happy New Years
Bill Lamoreaux

Very much enjoyed your input. Hope to read more from you. Are you still in the zoo field? I'm at Philly, if you're ever out this way, make sure to give me a yell.
Steve B.

No, I left the "circus life" after running away to join it in 1976. In 1983, of all things, I went into "Real Estate" to "make my fortune" in Dallas until it crashed in 86! During that time I was exposed to some very nice people but some with the view that "man" was somehow given the "right" to do what he or she wants with planet earth. Not dark souls, just little exposure to "Nature" except maybe big game hunting.
After that started teaching at a science academy and kept a group of Dumerils and Rough Neck monitors in the classroom in the winter,outside in the summer. While teaching science I also taught computer science and eventually left teaching, joined up with Bill Gates and Microsofts MCSE program and now I am a System Administrator with the CU-Boulder Law Library. They turn out a lot of lawyers in Enviro-law up here (don't know if that is good or bad!) Nice campus, get to visit with Hobart Smith,David Chizar,Julio Limos all working on Mexican Herps so that is great. Of course "Evil Kanevil" Charlie Radcliffe along with Tom Weaver are among a few at the Denver Zoo that is doing great things with "lap tame" Komodo Dragons".
That's more than you asked for but Jim Murphy taught be to write "explicitly!"

If I have Indigo field questions or the "how tos", I will direct them to you or the knowledgeable herpers here or in Europe.

Cheers
Bill Lamoreaux

that's about the same time frame...i put an article in the hiss journal....there was a lot going on in the private sector that was "underground" so to speak....in fact i know a guy doin' all kinds of stuff with turtles that he keeps secret........

Yes, you are correct about that, many great things have been done by the "private sector" 1st and many of the techniques we used at Dallas were borrowed from the private or public sectors. Later when teaching, I learned to borrow what worked from anybody or anything that provided it and not ask questions. Can't let your ego get in the way of your objective.

I know I keep a very low profile in the private sector even though I have permits for the Indian Pythons,gilas etc. I thought Texas was radical on laws but Colorado is worse with no organized body to educate the State so to speak. For god sakes last year they passed a law at a "retreat" for the commisioners and decided, due to an imported pet rat infecting a praire dog with a virus at a dealers compound, that no one can legally have a praire dog as a pet!! We have praire dogs on every corner up here, many upside down on the road! I love them all.

Anyway as you said many privates are working in "secret" but at the same time this does not help when one goes to apply for the newly or oldly permit regulations put in place for that year or in the past. The mis-conception of "some - not all", of the regulators is that private persons don't need to have these animals. Writing up findings somewhere -anywhere, we can point to, can not help but keep the law enforcement at a responsible and non-hystericallevel.

I like the website for indigosnakes.com, that is a perfect place to show legitimacy and write-up findings. They need a web-page for every herp privates are keeping that can accept their findings.

Just my thoughts, hope to hear more.

Bill Lamoreaux
Molurus Breeding Center

You are dead on the money.
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"Life without risk is to merely exist."