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Does nobody have a real answer to my question? In areas where ideal habitat is provided and specimens are scarce, would areas where species going through the same habbitat loss (in this case the collard lizard) are located be a good place to look for emoryi?
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1.0 Ball Python "Wilson" (Castaway)
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Onyx"

written wrong, should read "in areas where ideal habbitat is NOT provided"
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1.0 Ball Python "Wilson" (Castaway)
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Onyx"

Phiber, I don't have any experience with Great plains rats from up north, but lots with the southern form or subspecies (Elaphe emoryi meahllmorum aka Pantherophis guttatus meahllmorum). From what I have read, they are very similar in habits and habitat. This is a very common and adaptable snake here in South Texas and can be found in many different habitats, and in suburban and developing areas. I personally have found them in open fields, wooded areas, inside hollow trees, under boards and trash, and inside old abandoned houses. I think that the GP's where you are would probably be opportunistic in their choice of habitat also. - Toby

Thanks you very much for the advice. So would you think they MAY just choose the same cover as my black rat ac?
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1.0 Ball Python "Wilson" (Castaway)
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Onyx"

>>Thanks you very much for the advice. So would you think they MAY just choose the same cover as my black rat ac?
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That's a very different question. When you're asking if they are there, how would anyone know if they weren't familiar with the area? If you live there you're the one who will find out. However, we can say it seems like they should be there, and in that case, you're cover for black rats would likely be the same as good cover for Great Plains rats. I would look for the GP rats (emoryi) under the same cover as I set for milk snakes, actually. The black rats will do better in more forested areas, I think.

You're within the range of emoryi in sw. MO, so they should be there. But as us field workers know, snakes aren't everywhere. You should look for the best habitat and then look for likely hiding places in that habitat. Also the time of the year is important. Sounds like spring would be ideal there. I would look in open habitat, but not exclude open woodland. Where the collards are sounds like it would be ideal to me. Why don't you give it a try?

BTW, I'd like to see some pics of the emoryi in that area. Although they are considered emoryi, I think they are close enough to Arkansas that they'd be much like those snakes. The Arkansas snakes, often from wooded uplands, btw, have questionable taxonomy. To me they look a lot like slowinskii, and they could also be intergrades with emoryi, if not pure emoryi. Good luck with that project..sounds very interesting...

TC

Thanks for the input. Trust me if/when I find them, there will be picture galore. I want to start my own line of creamsickles and a line of locale emoryi. I also would like to try and experiment with anery and "snow" emoryi. Of course they would be a corn cross but I would outcross with emoryi every couple generations so they retain those emoryi good looks. And don't worry they would all be labeled as creamsicles and hybrids.
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1.0 Ball Python "Wilson" (Castaway)
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Onyx"

I like locale emoryi and meahllmorum also, but I don't have very many, yet. Here's my Freer, Southwestern rat, again...

I think this form has great color/pattern and body shape. I'm keeping the locality meahllmorum, but also going to make cinnamons with them.

Another form I like is the silver emoryi, a western form. Here's a pic of my male, which is mostly brown, however...

I'm going to cross him to my special albino corn next spring to start a creamsicle project. I like this emoryi because it is short and stocky and has good color/pattern. I also like the albino corn crosses much better than crossing with an albino emoryi because the colors come out so much better.

So, I can see why you like the Emory's rats and plan to make some crosses with corns also. I wish you lots of luck finding your locality emoryi and with your projects. You might even want to consider looking for them up in the hills near Arkansas. There's some cool ones up there. Can't wait to see whatever pix you get

Terry

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Ratsnake Haven...researching ratsnakes since 1988

Ratsnake Haven Group...an information providing list site.

Hey Terry, where does that silver emoryi come from? Very nice colors! - Toby

>>Hey Terry, where does that silver emoryi come from? Very nice colors! - Toby

Thanks, Toby.

I believe the emoryi from all over the western part of the range, i.e., CO, TX, N.M., Utah, etc., tend to be shorter and stouter than the eastern forms, and also have a tendency towards browns and grays. My pair were CB in 2001 from a guy in N.M. and I'm not sure where he got them from. I plan to herp a couple spots in N.M. and West TX one of these days that should produce some interesting guttatus.

TC

Here's a pic of my female again...

Very pretty snake, Terry. The colors and narrow blotches remind me somewhat of juvenile Bairds. - Toby