Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I posted about this subject in the business trends forum awhile ago but I don't think very many people even look there, so I'm posting it here now. It annoys me as much as most people when the whole "market" issue is brought up. But I'm planning on picking up a male spider next month and I'm getting anxious. I'm actually VERY happy that the market value on them is holding steady. But what will it be like in '06 and '07?

It seems like spiders are naturally the next step on the ladder after pastels and we all know what happened with them. It's not really even a major deal to me. I won't mind if I spend 4 grand on an awesome animal this year and next year he's only worth half that or whatever. I'm not totally focused on the money aspect. He'll still be invaluable in creating some other great animals. I want bumblebees more than ANY other morph. It's just a question that runs through my head about what the general state of Spiders will be in the next few years. Will we see them going for as low as 1/4 of what they are now? Anyone pondered the same thing? What do you come up with?

ive decided not to go into ball pythons... thats my conclusion. if i do breed balls im gonna only breed normals because the morph market has been really sketchy latley and im afraid of the same thing... i can definatly see spiders droping down to at least 1/2 what they are now
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sincerely,
Jonathan D. de Kluyver
JDDK Reptiles
Quality Reptiles and Amphibians
www.jddkreptiles.com

At least with normals you know they will not be profitable, I guess if you don't like uncertainty that's worth something.

Price drops are inevitable as supply increases and a lower price is needed to balance supply with demand. With dominant type mutations the drops should be fairly quick since they can be produced in exponentially increasing numbers each year.

Of course hindsight is always best but I think we are still close enough to the last major spider price correction that it might be a while still before the next. Ideally they might now be to the point where supply and demand based pricing will make the inevitable price drops more steady from here on out. They might not be as safe and steady as pastel though as there is always more risk with the higher priced morphs to go with the higher potential profit. As long as they only drop by 1/2 to 1/4 in the next couple years you will only have to produce and sell 2 to 4 in order to get to profitability. If you have several good breeder females that you know how to breed that should be pretty doable. If you don't have adult females yet then wait until a year before your females will be ready and get your male spider at whatever the new price has fallen to by then (or where you planning on a female spider to breed to a male pastel?).

Lesser bee
woma bee
bumble bee
killer bee

the piebald lesser bee, piebald woma bee, blah, blah, blah

Lav albino spider, lav albino spider piebald.......

Bottom line is 2005 spider male $3500
2006-2007 season Male x 10 norms, 5 cluches x 6eggs = 30 babies of which maybe 15 spiders. Now those are the ODDS.

Even at $2k each thats a $30k gross return - housing, food, and investment you still end up with one hell of a 2yr ROI!

an adult female spider is priceless..
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billy jean king
BugBusters

Spider breeders are so quick to sell off their female offspring. This is going to come back and bite them in their backsides.

I feel the current prices on female spiders are way too low. They are worth more to keep.

Mike

>>Spider breeders are so quick to sell off their female offspring. This is going to come back and bite them in their backsides.
>>
>>I feel the current prices on female spiders are way too low. They are worth more to keep.
>>
>>Mike

I think the Spider morph is a great mutation and has some great combo value.

Keep your snakes because you like them!

Mike call me on my cell!

Kev
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www.newenglandreptile.com

If your not in it for the money then why are you worried about market price? If your worried that prices will drop then why not wait until next season and see? My female is an eating machine... which I hear is the norm for most Spiders. Wouldn't an 06 male most likely be ready to breed next year?
And Friendly..(in terms of ball pythons). "Miss muffet" actually waits at the cage door and crawls out into my hands in the evenings when I'm working on my computer near her cage.
In terms of personality, asthetics and possibilities, there is no bigger bargain in morphs than spiders.
IMHO
AVD

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"There is a fine line between a hobby and mental illness"
COLD BLOOD.........WARM HEART

I'm not overly concerned that he won't be worth as much as I paid for him a year from now but I'd be pretty stupid if I didn't care a little bit if I buy him this year and next year the price is DRASTICALLY lower. I don't know of anyone that doesn't mind spending an extra few thousand dollars on something if they don't have to.

.... You pay top dollar for the latest technology, only to see it twice as fast at half the price 4 Months later.
There's a price to pay to "Have it now"... or you can wait it out until hopefully they are at a price you feel is worth paying. Guess it depends on your priorities..personally, I lean more towards immediate gratification ...LOL.
Good luck in whatever you decide... spiders are awsome no matter what you pay for them!
IMHO

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"There is a fine line between a hobby and mental illness"
COLD BLOOD.........WARM HEART

I really don't think they will drop that much more and will probably stay steady for a while. Even if they do drop to half of what they currently are, how many non-ball pythons snakes can you name that are worth more then a couple thousand dollars? Maybe some Boa morphs, or some rare pythons, but there aren't that many of them. It's been over 10 years since I got more then $10.00-$15.00 for a normal corn snake but I still produce some every year. Why? because I like them. The spiders aren't going to drop THAT much, and you should be able to make back your initial investment without too much trouble. Of course this is provided that it doesn't die and actually breeds for you, but you can have that problem with anything.

>>I posted about this subject in the business trends forum awhile ago but I don't think very many people even look there, so I'm posting it here now. It annoys me as much as most people when the whole "market" issue is brought up. But I'm planning on picking up a male spider next month and I'm getting anxious. I'm actually VERY happy that the market value on them is holding steady. But what will it be like in '06 and '07?
>>
>>It seems like spiders are naturally the next step on the ladder after pastels and we all know what happened with them. It's not really even a major deal to me. I won't mind if I spend 4 grand on an awesome animal this year and next year he's only worth half that or whatever. I'm not totally focused on the money aspect. He'll still be invaluable in creating some other great animals. I want bumblebees more than ANY other morph. It's just a question that runs through my head about what the general state of Spiders will be in the next few years. Will we see them going for as low as 1/4 of what they are now? Anyone pondered the same thing? What do you come up with?
>>

Look at it this way - you do it for the love of the snakes, but you want to at least recoup your investment and maybe add some cash to your account (probably to buy more snake right?). So you spend $3k-$4k on a really nice spider breed it and get a couple of spider offspring. Now at the end of 2005 we saw spiders dropping down into the $2k range - pretty safe to say that is probably where they will end up staying in 2006 - and maybe as far down as $1500 in 2007 - who knows - but that looks to be where its headed. You can go on and on about big breeders holding thier price - but lets face it there are toooo many people that already got their spider this season that all they want to do is breed the (insert expletive here) out of it so they can make their money back before the price crash and buy something else to breed before that price crashes. Wicked cycle but there it is. Either way - you make your money back on the spider in a year or two hopefully by year 2 you'll make a tidy profit.

BTW - she looks great Ryan! She ready to breed again this season?
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

10.35.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.1 Lizard rescued from feline
0.0.0 frogs rescued from pool skimmer

I come up with pretty much the same things you just said. Just felt like starting a discussion about it. She's actually been off feed for a couple months. Still weighs about 2400 grams though. I'm planning on putting the spider with her so she's got time to get back on track. Like almost a year. She laid her clutch of 7 in late March and began eating really strong right after that. But she's been off because of winter. I like looking at that picture since I never see her in person. She just hides all the time. I'm not worried about pushing her at all. I figure almost 2 years in between clutches will be very good for her and hopefully she'll have a bigger clutch and all will survive this time. Thanks for asking. Ryan.

I think with people like myself around who are purchasing their base morphs now, still want the "lowly" morphs to dink around with. Spiders ROCK!!!!! I can't wait to own one.
Depending on who you talk to, you can get a good price.
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In Loving Memory of the best Brother God gave me
Sgt. Arnold DuPlantier II
(Army National Guard, Charlie Rock Co.)
06/03/1979-06/22/2005
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NP
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In Loving Memory of the best Brother God gave me
Sgt. Arnold DuPlantier II
(Army National Guard, Charlie Rock Co.)
06/03/1979-06/22/2005
Support Our Troops