Reptile & Amphibian Forums

well this is the way i see it. and why i am still buying into the ball python market. yes there are a few people with the big money to drop 50,20,10 grand on a animal. and yes its nice to make a sale like that. but how many people in this industry dont have that kinda money. the truth is i know i could sell hundreds (of for a example) of spiders at 500 dollars. there are always going to be people wanting the animals. the people who think they will make millions are going to fizzle out it comes down to supply and demand like any other business or industry. you either be the first or you mass produce. there is not a person in the industry that would not buy a pied for 500 dollars. and there are not enough being breed to keep up with such a damand at that price. if you love breeding reptiles and you put in the time and dont us it as a get rich quick over nigth. the will always be money to be made.
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ball pythons are worse than crack you always need more

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Vince Pramuk
Vince Pramuk Reptiles

I think the Spiders are great. I have not gotten one yet, but plan on getting one soon. Assuming they are the same price, what would you take, 3 Ghost females or 3 Spider females? That would be a tough decision.

I wouldn't hesitate to take the 3 ghosts females over the 3 spider females...but that's just me.
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Ryan Farris

I'm with Ryan the 3 Ghost females.
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Adrian
AFR
http://imageevent.com/afreptiles

While I hear what you two are saying, in taking the Ghosts, I think it would depend on what you have and what you are going for, and of course what you like. I do not have a Spider at all, I do have a Ghost male, and Pastel male, and a Mojave poss het Ghost male, to go along with my Ember Ball het Hypo male, and some Het males, so I would have a difficult time picking. The Ghost females would fit in with my Ghost male or Ember Het Hypo male, and even my Mojave poss het Hypo male, but anything Dom or Co Dom bred to a Spider, you would see Spiders right away, and Spider crosses. Of course, a Ghost x Ghost breeding would be (bleep)in too, tough call. All said and done, for me, it is the Spiders. Ghost male to one, Ember Ball male to one, and the Pastel male to one....ahhhhh,,,,,DREAMING sux! Who asked this stupid question to begin with? Oh yeah.

Don't get me wrong I wouldn't mind having 3 Spider females but everything looks better with the Ghost. I'm planning on holding back at least 4 or 5 Spider females this year.
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Adrian
AFR
http://imageevent.com/afreptiles

Yeah, I'd take 2 ghost females maybe even 1 ghost female over 3 spider females...look at the price trends...

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when life hands you lemons, make super lemons, bumblebees, etc...

I'm not all that fond of Hypos (they aren't ghosts yet). Just look like faded normals to me. But that's why its great to be able to choose!

If it were 3 male Spiders vs 3 male Hypos, I'd go with the Spiders. 3 female Spiders vs 3 female Hypos, I'd go with the Hypos. Just my opinion.
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Ryan Farris

np

Take the spiders - make some bees - no worries - what can you do with hypos - make more hypos - het hypos? - lotsa stuff you can do first generation with the spiders. Hypos are sweet - but I don't see a need for three females unless you got a serious plan? O'course I'm probably wrong - I don't know squat.

Wish I had such a dilemma!
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

10.35.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.1 Lizard rescued from feline
0.0.0 frogs rescued from pool skimmer

Ever see a honeybee?.....I don't see as many of those floating around as bumblebees. Maybe because working with hets takes too much time for some of you all

3 hypos or 3 spiders......I would have to split the difference...1.0 Spider and 0.2 Hypos....you can't beat a honeybee.

If you really want to save the ball python market, you should write to your Congresscritters and ask for a $50-$100 per snake tariff to be placed on imported ball pythons. If this tariff passed, the big importers would not be able to move tens of thousands of wild caught snakes at $5/snake to be sold in pet stores at $50/snake. If the cost of each snake coming off the dock were $55, then the pet stores would need to raise their prices to about $150 to $200 for wild caught snakes. They'd need to raise the price somewhat just to pay the tariff. They'd also want more profit per snake because they'd sell fewer snakes.

I think this change would cause wild caught imported ball pythons to come closer in price to domestic bred ball pythons even for a normal patterned snake. The price of all ball pythons would increase, but increasing prices would make production of normals more worthwhile for the average hobbyist. The overall market might decrease slightly, but the people most likely to drop out of the market will be teenagers who would otherwise buy a ball python on a whim and not take care of it. Their exit from the market might be a good thing too.

There would still be some importation. Some people would try to smuggle moderate numbers of snakes into the country for the domestic market. Dealers would import some normals just to maintain diversity in the gene pool, but the numbers would decline dramatically. We'd no longer be stripping the natural populations in Africa. Obviously, rare morphs would still be imported by specialists.

I'm not sure whether I would really support this change. On the one hand, I can imagine some good results. On the other hand, I recognize that most government attempts to make anything better only make it worse. On the one hand, I'm uncomfortable with government manipulation of free markets. On the other hand, tariffs worked very well for this country for our first 100+ years. On one hand, I don't like more taxes. On the other hand, if we must have a tax, I like confining the tax man to the end of a dock.

In any case, if we reach a point where the ball python trade becomes restricted for environmental reasons, the entire domestic market is going to jump. All of those normals that people produce while trying to produce a unique snake with a special look will suddenly have real market value and will not be just "extras" to be dumped wherever they can be dumped.

Bill
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It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.