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Crickets FINALLY!!

wyocuttergirl Jan 03, 2006 09:25 PM

Hi All! I've had a couple of bad days. Our local pet store of which there is one in my local area has been out of crickets. I fed snappy the last 3 yesterday morning and went to get more today only to be told that they won't be getting any in until at least Friday. Luckily my friend was going to our closest urban shopping area (100 miles away) and brought home 50 to get me through until my local store has some. So here's the question. Is it better to ration the ones I have or feed her as many as she'll eat? If I should run out, how long can I go without feeding her and how will it affect her health? The pet store guy, obviously perturbed I wouldn't take his advice that she would be fine for at least 2 weeks without food said, "Maybe you should consider raising your own crickets." Is that really something I should consider? Any on-line cricket delivery services? He talked me into buying canned, baked crickets (before my friend told me she would pick some up). They were disgusting. Snappy was hungry enough to taste 'em, but she stuck her tounge out took one little taste and promptly returned to her basking rock to pout and wouldn't go near them again. The pet store also suggested going outside to collect any bugs I might find. Is there a problem with that? Aside from the fact that I live in Wyoming and it's been below freezing for roughly the last two and half months.

Thanks to all of you for your help.

Deb

Replies (16)

PHEve Jan 03, 2006 10:11 PM

Hahahah, couldn't resist! Deb there are alot of places you can order feeder bugs online. If you get deliveries made out where you are there should be no problem.

If UPS and DHL and postal services deliver your okay. Also yes, you can breed crickets if ya have the time. I breed most of mine, and buy extra for breeders, I need atleast 3 -4 thousand every 3-4 weeks

It takes some time and care, and is harder in the winter so you have to heat the breeders so they will lay eggs, then heat the eggs so they hatch.

Have you tried feeding her superworms yet? If she likes them I would buy a mess of them, always good if you run out of crickets to have something else handy. And these guys last a long time.

Heres a link for buying bugs online (like I say providing you can get deliveries out where you are.)
Herp Food

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PHEve / Eve

Contact PHEve

wyocuttergirl Jan 03, 2006 10:19 PM

My pet store doesn't even carry mealworms. They told me to check the bait shop (for fishing) and all they had were nightcrawlers. I checkout the website you listed. That's probably my best bet. There's another pet store 35 miles away I might check with. And how many superworms should I order for one little green girl?

So if I were ordering crickets on-line, how many do I order at a time? How long do they live if I have the water pillow thing and provide them with food. How many will she consume in a week? I shut her off at 12 crickets today. Should I feed her until she won't eat any more? I'm still consfused on this. I didn't want to overload her since she was on a limited diet the last couple of days.

Am I making too much of all this?

Deb

PHEve Jan 03, 2006 10:37 PM

Mealies have to be refidgerated, superworms do not and last long. They are a nice big feeder and easier to digest than a mealworm.

Your girl sounds like she enjoys eating, let her eat, she will slow down at times too.

You can buy as little as 100 or as many as 1000 or more. You have to figure approx what she eats weekly and go from there. I think there a 10.00 min. when you buy online, so get some crickets (How ever many you think you will go through in a month lets say) and some superworms . That ought to DO YA !

Hopefully she likes superworms, hehehehee !
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PHEve / Eve

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bob Jan 04, 2006 05:32 PM

Deb, if you have a bait store by you then you maybe able to try waxworms with your lizard, Ive never tried them on collareds but all of the other lizards I keep and species I use to keep have always relished them. Butterworms are another food item that bait stores sometimes have and some lizards eat them and some dont, [maybe they taste like spinach? LOL] As for feeding until they wont eat? I think it is better to leave them a bit on the hungry side instead of the gluttonous side or you may end up with a lizard that looks like someone who lives on junkfood? Moderation being they key with food volumes.Another thing to consider is what size prey items to give, I have always been a firm believer that a larger quanity of smaller insects is better than a couple of HUGE insects, the smaller insects digest easier and the lizard grows faster as a result. I make my own cricket food with a mash that is made for egg laying chickens, it is high in calcium and low in cost, I put it in an old blender and add fresh bee pollen granules, Wheat germ,Calcium carbonate powder, whole alfalfa, brewers yeast, mix it good into a powder. This is given to the crickets at least 24 hrs before feeding the lizard, I also give a slice of orange or apple for the crickets water source, this is called gut loading the crickets and the more good things like this the cricket has in their gut when the lizard eats them the more nutients your lizard will get from the cricket. You can buy cricket food but I think its to expensive when your feeding 1-2000 crickets at a time like I do, making your own mix is I think better anyway. It is kinda fun to make, I substitue different ingredients all the time to try and use a blanket approach and cover all nutrients, minerals, trace elements.
Cheers, Bob

Johne Jan 04, 2006 09:00 AM

Shipping has been very reasonable, and they were packed very well! I can't believe the service! :O)

Just kidding...Eve did send me several superworms a few weeks ago to get me through the fall (saved my butt).

I would definately use an online vender, but as others suggested...try the superworms as an alternative source. They do keep forever, but are problematic to get to reproduce. I believe Bob is referring to normal mealworms (tenebria molitor) as easy breeding. For superworms (Zophobas morio), you have to separate worms into individual containers and quit feeding them. IT takes a long time, but they will eventually pupate. Their pupal stage takes much longer than normal mealworms. The beetles are very large...when I introduced the beetles, they wanted nothing to do with each other...perhaps they were all the same sex, who knows. The normal mealworms were also piggy back riding.

anyway...don't know how many lizards you have, but breeding crickets I think would be too much hassle, unless you tackle it in large numbers. When I tried to do it with just a few lizards, I never had large crickets ready. Collareds consume so many small crickets, I was always going through them too quickly. You really need several staging areas where you can segrate them by size. They can become a very stinky mess and attract some nasty little flies in a hurry too. I would keep superworms, or mealworms in large numbers, as they can keep for a long time in a small amount of space. They take much longer stink up their bedding in ideal conditions as opposed to crickets. Hopefully your lizards will like them.

That's all I have for now.

John E.

PHEve Jan 04, 2006 10:05 AM

YF
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PHEve / Eve

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bob Jan 04, 2006 12:15 PM

Yes, Johnee you do have to seperate superworms but they seem to breed just fine in the substrate of my monitor cage, the problem is when they pupate the other worms will eat them so they will only pupate if they know their canabalistic friends are not around LOL. I use to say its a good thing Jeffery Dahmer didnt know about these superworms or he may have been able to get rid of all the human remains that they caught him with, and no Im not kidding these superworms eat anything and everything, and yes they bite so handle with care. best to put them in a glass jar individually and they will pupate and turn into reproductive black beetles, then put the beetles in a plastic tub with wood chips and put any kind of food on top of the wood chips and you will be in bussiness.Whats nice about raiseing your own worms is you have a good size selection, great for feeding small lizards and large ones to. One more good thing about these worms, it has been my observation that a lizard fed these worms as a staple diet will grow faster than a lizard raised on crickets.
Bob

Johne Jan 04, 2006 01:34 PM

I'm more optomistic about trying it again. If they'll indeed breed in your cage then it sounds like I have a good excuse to get some monitors :O) I've always been intrigued with them anyway, ha, ha.

I will definately be trying that again. I know they will definately eat anything. I put a plastic cup of them in with my mealworms, and they actually ate through the plastic to get into the bedding with the mealworms! I have them bite onto me, but never any pain involved...just that eery feeling of, "ewwww, this nasty thing is biting on me."

Cool information.

John E.

bob Jan 04, 2006 05:39 AM

Deb, I would think to ration the crickets instead of all at once would be best, superworms would be a good choice to keep for emergency situations like this, they keep long and breed easy, they eat rotten wood in nature but will eat ANYTHING! Also pinkie mice are another alternative food source when she gets older. Collards also eat green vegtables from what I have read, mustard greens, endive, dandelions to so that is another food source to fall back on.
Bob

wyocuttergirl Jan 04, 2006 12:31 PM

Thanks all! I tried the fruit and veggie thing with Snappy. She doesn't seem at all interested in anything I offered, unless it's moving.

I only have one lizard. We've owned her for a whole week and a half now! She seems to be going great guns. She is calming down now that she's getting used to her new environment. She does still like my husband more than she likes me. But that's a good thing! He thinks she's cool now. He was pretty reluctant to keep her when we got her. He was raised without pets, so when I came along with my mini-zoo in tow he's had to learn to adjust. I think for only one lizard, I'll stay away from breeding things.

I'm going to order some crickets and super worms. Do I need to keep the super worms in individual containers? I think that's what I read in the previous posts. Do I need to gut load the superworms?

Thanks for being so patient with the new herp owner! I'll try to dowload another pic this afternoon.

Deb

P.S. Eve: Cheyenne is glorious! Old cowboys used to talk about horses having a "kind eye" and that being indicative of temperment. I think she has a very kind eye.

PHEve Jan 04, 2006 01:19 PM

Hahhaha ! Thanks for your words about Cheyenne, yes, shes got very gentle eyes.

Now as far as superworms, keep them seperate from your crickets but have a 10 gallon tank or a small rubbermaid container, if it is slick enough on the sides I don't even use a lid for them. I actually use an old platic igloo cooler.
And put in some eggcrates for them to climb on and chew up, they actually chew it up and it becomes a bedding,

Just give them space don't want them real overcrowded. YES, gutload them.
I feed my crickets and superworms everyday. That way I know they have eaten and are healthy. I use collard greens, kale, any dark greens, carrot chucks, potato chunks, dried dog food, catfood, cereals, oatmeal, fish food flakes, it's endless what you can use....

As far as veggies and friuts for your collared lizard, they are NOT into them that much, you may find a rebel here and there that may snack on a chuck of fruit or a green but for the most part, ask any keeper/breeder and they will tell you it's mostly a waste of time and veggies/fruits They like BUGS, and in nature other small lizards.

I have many collareds and will drop shredded carrot or green occasionally and out of 30 something collareds maybe one will try a nibble and stop.

They like the HUNT and the movement!
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PHEve / Eve

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Johne Jan 04, 2006 01:37 PM

That they have observed collareds in the wild from time-to-time will eat some flowers. I have tried offering it to all my lizards and none will ever eat them. They look at me like I'm crazy.

I think John-C prepares a plate with greens, turkey, and a few mealworms/superworms and has great success with it. It may just take some time to get them accustomed to eating it.

John E.

bob Jan 04, 2006 05:47 PM

John, I am familiar with people using turkey to feed their monitors, I dont like the idea myself because turkey isnt a natural food and if it isnt cooked it can carry salmonella. I tried it with my pilbara rock monitors but only after a couple times I quit using it.Why not feed them a small mouse instead? Its like a choc full of nuts for them, alot of calcium, natural vitamin D-3 from the liver of the mouse and meat. Not only all of this but they come packaged in fur, no mess to clean up like the ground turkey.You know maybe the collards only eat the flowers as an alternative for when they cannot score on some insects or another lizard? They may even eat them when they crave minerals in their diet? I use to breed bearded dragons years ago and I noticed my gravid female eating dirt, after I did some research on it I found that some human women crave to eat dirt during preganency. No kiddin I couldnt believe it either but it is documented, Reason is there are minerals in dirt and when preganent humans as well as all animal species need extra calcium and minerals. What I did was buy a mix that is really made for birds, it is called ABBA mineral mix and can be bought at any pet store that has bird supplies. ABBA is oystershells ground up with alot of other goodies like minerals in it, the peices seemed kind of large for my beardie so what I did was screen it through an aquarium screen to harvest the smaller safer size pieces, I then put the mix on a little plate and my dragons would go for it as soon as thed see it, they looked like chickens picking at grit stones and they would eat this. I have done this with frilled dragons as well and they love it to, I will also try it on my collards when I get them. Hopefully tomarrow they will be here, dang overnite mail failed once again, was suppose to have them today?
Cheers, Bob

Johne Jan 05, 2006 09:20 AM

Not collard :O) I see my collareds picking at the dirt a lot. I keep mine outside about 5 months out of the year. They do pick at most tiny specs in the dirt. I often will place tiny bits of calcium powder on their rocks, and they do try to lap it up a lot of times.

I am familiar witht he bird mix you are referring too. Our feed store sells some similar for chickens and such. It looks a lot like typical oat germ with crushed coral in it. I used to buy it and feed it to my mealworms and superworms. I'm not really sure how much of the Ca the worms consumed, but I would supposed minute amounts would still adhere to their bodies.

They person that feeds the bits of ground turkey is using a small amount. Nothing that would amount to a small pinky or mouse. I think he using it mostly as an additive for his greens. This way he gets his collareds accustomed to eating and picking through the salads. He breeds several species of lizards (baja blue rock lizards, collareds, agama, spinies, etc) and is one fo the top three Uromastyx breeders in the US. He is filled with knowledge of breeding that I can't even begin to describe. He has helped me out multiple times with experience.

I have fed pinies to my collareds, but not very often. If were specking of natural diet, I think sticking with insects and the occasional lizard would be the way to go. They are about as liklely to catch and eat a baby mouse in the wild as they are a hatchling bird. Again if you are concerned about Salmonella, you will avoid feeding lizards as well (they also harbor Salmonella). I'm not too concerned about it. Just brown the turkey, and you've killed the cells very effectively. It is not a spore forming bacteria, so I would not worry about it too much, unless I was feeding lots of raw eggs and meat. Any store bought food has a risk of harboring live Salmonella cells. A few year ago, there were several shipments of lettuce that hitched a ride in a loading truck that was also packed with Contaminated meat. The meat dripped on the lettuce. Actually, it was lettuce and several vegetables that got the fluid. Anyway, this was tracked and found to be the cause of several illnesses.

A second case in which several people were infected from Salmonella was from contaminated Maltomeal cereal. Again, this was the result of meat dripping on some cereal while it was in transit. My wife and parents all got Salmonells in this case, as well as several other people in several different states. Interesting enough, my wife got terribly sick and my parents had no idea they were carrying the bacteria. They volunteered to take a test to see if they had it too, and they did. I didn't take the test. I'm sure I had it as well.

In all honestly, I worry about my dogs giving me something that my lizards. I tend to be less weary (as do most) with their mammal pets than we do with our lizards. I always wash up well after any handling of my lizards or their cages/equipment, but seldom after petting my dog. Dogs eat some nasty stuff when were not looking :O)

That all said, we tend to feed our collared what we are comfortable with. We can share our experiences/successes as well as failures. I wanted to point out the saftey of the minced/browned turkey as a good protein source, not a full meal. I have a feeling this turkey supplement is a great way to add small rations of animal protein, and it is very inexpensive if you are feeding several animals.

Oh...I wanted to bring up one other point with my experiences with feeding mice/pinkies, and I'm sure you (Bob) will be able to share some of your own. I have found that my local petstores have the nastiest rodents for sale. I hate to every buy from them. When I do get pinkies, sometimes they look as if they were dead for too long before being frozen. I've found that buying them in quantity by people that specialize in selling frozen rodents is the way to go. I still haven't ordered them online, becaus I only use pinkies to feed two snakes, and the shipping would kill me, but I have bought them at two different reptiles expos.

I prefer feeding frozen, and I want to be sure the adults were well fed and nourished with vitamins/minerals before buying the young.

all THAT aside, I think the more variety the better. That's one reason I keep my lizards outside a lot of the year. I have plants that attract insects all year they are out (flies, butterflies, moths, spiders, beetles, crickets) that I know they are getting lots of variety. They also have the luxury of eating up the dandelions and greens if my chuckwallas don't get them first ;O)

John E.

bob Jan 05, 2006 04:35 PM

Johne writes:
Dogs eat some nasty stuff when were not looking :O)

John, I will have to remember this the next time Rover comes to lick me on the cheek LOL. I use to buy pinkies but I keep a lot of monitors so it is better for me to breed my own mice, in 3-10 gallon tanks you wouldn't believe the pinkie production I get, and they are there when I need them I dont have to drive around to 3 different petshops to get them, I am sure as clean as I try to keep the rodents doesn't void them from carrying something? Monitors can tolerate eating some of the nastiest things on this earth without consequence. I will try live pinks on my collards when I get more, I am sure they will take them. These guys are little eating machines, I couldn't believe I put a dozen of them in with a trio and they were gone when I looked in on them 20 min. later. I think the collards probably eat more pinks in the wild than we probably believe? I read they eat small mammals in the wild to. I dont see them catching a wild turkey though LOL just had to throw that in. Im sure what you said about the turkey is true but Id rather just give them an occasional pink or 2. I will try the veggies a couple of times but after they refuse I will wait sometime before trying again.I remember my beardies only really taking veggies as they got older, I also gave my beardies tofu which is a good source of protien, they really liked that. Now I will check on my new crew and see what their up to, maybe try and get some pics? You think my spelling is bad wait till you see my pics LOL
Bob

bob Jan 05, 2006 04:39 PM

Deb, One more tip, do not put a lot of crickets in the cage to where the lizard has them crawling on her, crickets do eat lizards to you know so put a small piece of apple or potato in the lizard cage for any stry crickets to munch instead of munching on snappy. I usually only put in what I think will be eaten through out the day.
Bob

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