Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Just picked up this beauty from Steve Roussis and let me say this is probably one of the best pieds that I have seen in a long time and better yet she is a new blood line.

Thanks,
Wyatt

TW Intl Inc.
Dallas, Tx

I was wondering when someone was going to pick her up.
I was too worried of health/feeding issues.
She looks sweet and very active.

From My favorite breeder!
Enjoy in good health!
BRGDS,
AVD
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"There is a fine line between a hobby and mental illness"
COLD BLOOD.........WARM HEART

Thanks for sharing,
Ken
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1.0 Albino Ball Python (Apu)
0.5 Normal Ball Pythons (Norma, Nova, Nala, Nimeesha, Nyoka)
1.1 Argentine B/W Tegus (Draco and Drucilla)
0.1 Columbian B/W Tegu (Diablo)
1.0 Black Throat Monitor (Razor)
1.0 Desert Tortoise (Tubbs) from Tortoise Rescue
1.0 Boxer (Shadow)
0.1 Feline (CK)
1.0 Memory of my Redtail Boa (Mo) which passed away after 28 years

www.ocballs.net
kvandoren@ocballs.net

be called 'Lucky'.

Or, for some Native American flavour: BornWithaBullseye or SlitheringTarget.....lol
Was it found in an area populated by BLIND predators? lol

Seriously though, I'm amazed every time I see an imported adult Pied/Ivory.

Beautiful snake, thanks for sharing.

BB
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"Have you hugged your drummer today?" --- Me

GREAT PICKUP

I have a ? Why are so many people on the I hate WC ball bandwagon? Yes they can be problematic but without them our gene pools lack diversity and without them we wouldnt have any Balls we could call CB in the first place.

If wild balls never breed than why do we see all these morphs that originated from WC imports that cost 10s of thousands of dollars?

BALLS,,,, LOVE EM ALL

Part of the purpose of breeding these animals is to reduce the stress on the wild populations. Remember, a wc animal knows what it's like to have freedom...a cbb doesn't. you can't miss what you never had/knew. Sure, there's no proof the snakes have any clue whats going on, but there's no proof they don't either. Importing a few animals for new breeder stock is fine...it's mass importing for public sale that's a problem.
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Female Ball possibly gravid from 66% poss het axanthic
Trio black rat snakes placed together 12/14/05

Chris LaViola
CMLReptiles
Website under construction
CMLReptiles@aol.com

Importing wild balls is not a problem in reality,, if it were CITES would not allow their exportation. The International Trade and wild populations are carefully monitered.

......"the passenger pigeon is so plentiful..that their demise shall never come about".....

that statement was wrong too?.....

........money sends them here not the over abundance of them.....

.........

how many snakes do you find around your home?.....see many frogs lately..?..turtles by the hundreds?.......the world is changing for the worse and not many care.......

....
.
..I write this stuff to make sure you all know and think about stuff........not to bust anyones' bubbles.........I just tend to talk out loud......

nice snake man..........!!!
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..................gottaLuvIt!!

,
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

I think your reading it wrong. W/c or imports are new blood but dont think thats what the posts was about. I think it was more along the lines of a pied that large making it in the wild to be adult stage! I cant believe a large white snake made it that long in africa with all those animals out there to hide from. Think its more the color and size of this snake that makes it hard to believe it. Imports are good for the business and new morphs are found every year it seems but dont think its people complaining about the imports like you was thinking...........I may be wrong
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swbore@earthlink.net

.ok.....this is rumor and never proven......

"NEW blood from Africa"......

.....been assumed that yes there is new blood all the time coming in.......has to be true.....

...assume there is blood that is related to the other pieds they sold the USA years ago....because they breed balls there too...

......said to be........a "certain" ball dealer...an African "godfather" even.....comes to the US and does some shows and looks around and picks a few critters up......then takes them back to Africa with him and sells them later as "new" blood.....(never proven.yet he is there).......

.....

anyways at all.....I hope you didn't oay too much extra for her........yet she is sweet.....good luck .......get 10 eggs............
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..................gottaLuvIt!!

>>......said to be........a "certain" ball dealer...an African "godfather" even.....comes to the US and does some shows and looks around and picks a few critters up......then takes them back to Africa with him and sells them later as "new" blood.....(never proven.yet he is there).......

Can it be determined with a DNA test? Paternal test?
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

Someday I bet we have DNA tests and it would be interesting to see how close all the wild caught of each morph are to each other or not.

Could he really get away with buying CB and re-importing them as wild caught? Wouldn't someone have a picture of every hatchling CB morph? Maybe there are a few big breeders who produce enough pieds to not bother taking a picture of one like that but it seems a stretch. Also hard to believe someone would value the initial sale enough to remain silent if a low life really was doing that.

At any rate, given all the out breeding with the 150,000 ch normals exported every year I wouldn't be willing to pay a premium for new blood imported adults of something as well established and outbred as piebald (not that I’m in the market for anything that expensive anyway). Especially a female should be discounted due to acclimation problems to get her to breed. But even a discounted adult pied would be a pretty penny and of course with more rare morphs like lavender there probably aren't any cb adults available.

>>Someday I bet we have DNA tests and it would be interesting to see how close all the wild caught of each morph are to each other or not.

That will be interesting for sure.

>>Could he really get away with buying CB and re-importing them as wild caught? Wouldn't someone have a picture of every hatchling CB morph?

Why not? I take pictures of everything I have and sell but to watch the market for every photo, not a chance. I'm not sure who all takes pics either. When I picked up my firt pair of het pieds from Pete Kahl, I had to request a photo and it was nothing more that a quick snapshot of 3 snakes - no guarantee, nothing stating what they were or who they were from.

>>Maybe there are a few big breeders who produce enough pieds to not bother taking a picture of one like that but it seems a stretch. Also hard to believe someone would value the initial sale enough to remain silent if a low life really was doing that.
>>

Hard to say what people will do for money. At this point, I have only heard rumours with nothing to back it up. But if a pied from Pete would sell for 5K but "New" blood would sell for 25K, I can see plenty of motivation. Honestly, what's to stop ME from taking offspring from my albinos and saying they are freshly imported from Africa? Then I can say they are the Martin line of high contrast fresh blood and can charge a premium. (My line is really from VPI.)

>>At any rate, given all the out breeding with the 150,000 ch normals exported every year I wouldn't be willing to pay a premium for new blood imported adults of something as well established and outbred as piebald (not that I’m in the market for anything that expensive anyway). Especially a female should be discounted due to acclimation problems to get her to breed. But even a discounted adult pied would be a pretty penny and of course with more rare morphs like lavender there probably aren't any cb adults available.

I completely agree. There are tons of females out there. More than enough to delute the blood.

What I find interesting is the chance of survival of a pied with tons of white in the wild. There is a reason, this is not normal or common. But to make it to adulthood without predation is a huge feat.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

Are they really asking that sort of premium for "new blood"? Wow!

It probably helps that balls probably don't spend a lot of time above ground in daylight.

Also, I wonder if piebald in particular might not be that bad for camouflage. Maybe it's like those WW2 ships that they pointed with geometric shapes. When they break up the normal outline pattern the brain doesn't recognize it. Of course it would still smell like a ball python and hard to believe a hungry predator would be put off by it not looking like one. I've read speculation that the main predator for ball pythons might be cobras on babies so maybe after they make it past that they don't run much risk apart from being dug up by a trapper looking for a piebald.

Hard to say. Would be interesting to learn about real field studies about Ball Pythons in the wild.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

Seeing that I have been going to Africa for the past few years and bringing back my own ball morphs by the means of trappers that I have been using for years, I can personally tell you that this paticular female was pulled straight from the wild. She was actually offered to me by my trapper a few months back and I was reluctant to pick her up then and when I saw that Steve had her and was selling her, I was not going to pass up that opportunity again.

Thanks,
Wyatt

Congratulations! She's beautiful. Just a question though, if you would not buy her from your own trapper, why buy her from someone else? It had to have cost you more money. Was she that expensive to begin with just to get "fresh" blood?
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

Jay,
I missed picking her up by a day. The trapper I use is not just my trapper. This is how he makes his living. So if I wait to long to make a decision to buy he just moves to the next person in line. So I would have bought her but I missed out and had to pay a little more.

Thanks,
Wyatt

She's definately a looker! Pieds are my favorite. Good luck with her.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

That same snake was listed in the classifieds for sale for $8k so as far as adult pied females go it was a bargain price. Let's hope she acclimates well and breeds for you in the next 1-3 years to make some of your money back and some new pied genes in the mix.
Josh Hutto
JKReptiles
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2.3 het pied (RDR, alan bosch x 2, BHB x 2)
1.1 het albino (ben siegel, gulf coast)
1.2 het citrus ghost(gulf coast line)
1.0 citrus ghost (gulf coast line)
0.1 graz pastel female
1.6 05 normal bp's
0.6 04 normal bp's
2.5 adult normal bp's (some need breeding to see if norm)
4 various corns
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa (alan bosch)
1.0 american pit bull terrior
1.1 taco dogs (ankle biters)
1.0 grey cat
1.1 bearded dragons

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrior as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

I am not really a skeptic.......I believe you.........just throwing thoughts and rumors I have heard....

that said .again....

? how much does it cost for my butt to go to Africa just to see this stuff and watch you buy balls?.......I can carry boxes........LOL.........((actually I don't think I would ever want to endure that plane ride))
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..................gottaLuvIt!!

to Africa! LOL

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>>? how much does it cost for my butt to go to Africa just to see this stuff and watch you buy balls?.......I can carry boxes........LOL.........((actually I don't think I would ever want to endure that plane ride))
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>>..................gottaLuvIt!!
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles