Reptile & Amphibian Forums

To the best of my knowledge (who knows what long ago breeders did through ignorance, indifference, or something else) my L.t. nelsoni stock is true Nelsoni; but look at the diversity in this group. The subspecies has suffered in popularity to the Hondurans but remains one of the most beautiful of the Milksnakes with many possibilities (they’re easy to care for too).

These three males are clutch mates. Lots of red with 17 red bands, 19 red bands, and 20 red bands. The 17 and 19-banded one have a lot of noticeable yellow in the middle of the red bands (not noticeable it the pictures of course).

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Rick
Never Enough
Reptiles

Sort of shows the yellow anyway. Both patternless females I’ve produced have this too.

I’m getting to the diversity

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Rick
Never Enough
Reptiles

Rick,the male I got from you shows the same yellow,we will see what they produce this year as they being cooled right now,Tery M

>>Rick,the male I got from you shows the same yellow,we will see what they produce this year as they being cooled right now,Tery M

I remember that and thought it was different looking then too. Does he still have it? I wonder if it is a type of marker for the patternless trait. It will be interesting to see what your pair produces.
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Rick
Never Enough
Reptiles

Females from the same clutch as the two aberrant males. I really like the normal female with the narrow bands; it is very difficult to see, but half her head is red. If she were an albino, it would be amazing. For some reason I prefer the all red tailed ones too. The patternless one is not totally patternless like her sister but close.

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Rick
Never Enough
Reptiles

n/p
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“There is a grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one; and that whilst this planet has gone on cycling according to the fixed laws of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved.” -C. Darwin, 1859

Great post.

Do the parents of the patternless that you produce have a really low band count or did the patternless trait just appear?

If I understood your post right, the patternless were clutchmates of regular banded animals. Have you been able to prove the patternless trait?

DNS Reptiles

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Dave Niles

Do you ever backcross to produce these taits(like the patternless and stripes)? If a male hatchling can reach breeding size in a year letting it breed back to it's female parent would strengthen the trait correct?

>>Do you ever backcross to produce these taits(like the patternless and stripes)? If a male hatchling can reach breeding size in a year letting it breed back to it's female parent would strengthen the trait correct?

I have only bred father to daughter once looking for Patternless to show up. “in-breeding” (father to daughter, etc.) is the best way to establish a desirable trait but, it also can cause problems and weakness can show up. Once the desirable trait is established, un-related outcrosses should be used to create a group of hets to help maintain some genetic diversity and health in the group. These “un-related outcrosses” should be introduced into a project on a regular basis, at least that’s my opinion.

Here's the female that produced the very high band counts, you can sorta see the yellow mixed in the red bands too.

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Rick
Never Enough
Reptiles

The male from my original pair is a perfectly marked Bull’s-eye Albino Nelson’s; 16 red bands, no triads extend to the belly, no crossovers, and some noticeable red on his snout. I need to get a picture one of these days. As much as I admire him though he is fairly “unremarkable”, that is, I would not consider him anything but a nice example of an Albino Nelson’s. The female from the original pair is even less remarkable being a normal het for Albino; she does have the red tail however.

I bought the pair (trio but one girl wouldn’t produce fertile eggs) because the breeder I got them from had the best looking Nelsoni of any I had seen anywhere else (the perfectly marked male) AND (it’s a big and) he had also produced at least one patternless from the same stock. He sold out right after I bought mine. I was able to track him down, with a little help, a couple of years ago but he did not know what happened to his breeding stock after he sold it (including the Patternless one).

I know of at least one other that Scott from VMS produced. It could have come from the same stock but Scott said his came from a Sinaloan pair. I have produced two so yes it is an inheritable trait; I think it is a simple recessive but it could be more complicated. Remember though the pair that has produced these are not aberrant looking at all (why I think it is recessive). The very high band count ones came from the original male bred back to a daughter but the original pair has produced a couple with 17 and 18 red bands too.
Here’s a picture of the 2004 Patternless (perfectly patternless)

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Rick
Never Enough
Reptiles

Two aberrant males from same clutch. The very aberrant male has small black and red dots all over his entire belly just like a striped/splotched Sinaloan does. I really like the true spots on the back third of the other male too. The albino male has more white than most of the others I get from this pair.

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Rick
Never Enough
Reptiles

...here's a wacky het male I produced a few years ago:

Third Eye

>>...here's a wacky het male I produced a few years ago:
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>>Third Eye

Thanks for the complement and I would have kept that dude hands down!
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Rick
Never Enough
Reptiles