Reptile & Amphibian Forums

First i want to say I hate Ohio's herp laws. If you want to keep 1 black rat snake you must pay $10yr. plus you can't realease it so you are stuck in paying $10yr for the animals lifetime. Stupid! I have no problem with buying permits to collect new animals but alredy established ones? do they make hunters pay every year for a deer that was shot in 1970? Ithink not.

anyway in the little online publication two species are not listed as unable to keep but are also not listed in the keepable part either? these are the fox snake and the box turtle. so does anyone know what is going on? they are not protected but you can't keep them?

In the case of the box turtle, you can't have them because they are listed as a "species of intrest". This means that they are in decline, and, if not closely monitored, may soon become threatened or endangered. As for the fox snake, I am not sure. Maybe Dean could shed some light on that.

Todd

Not sure what publication you are looking at, but on the Ohio reptile and amphibian permitting document from ODNR, both of those species are listed under the native Ohio species list.

As such, all of the rules would apply in order to keep them.
See:

http://www.dnr.ohio.gov/wildlife/PDF/pub03.pdf

Yes that is the exact publication. At the begining they list all Ohio species, but on the second page they have two areas. one is labeled "what you cannot do" and the other is "wild caught native reptiles and amphibians"

These areas are where the confusion lies. there are a few turtles (spotted, blandings, box) and some snakes (king, fox) that are not listed in either. so are you not allowed to own them or not allowed to collect them. I think this should be addressed by ODNR as it is unclear on what you can or cannot do with these.

I think spotted turtle populations as well as all populations need to be protected or regulated to an extent but it should not infringe upon captive populations.

scenario: What if you had a breeding group of box turtles that you have had for 15 years? New laws say you cannot keep them but you can't release them either? I like the old fishing license days.

There is a list of species which you cannot keep. There is a list of species which you are allowed to keep. The problem is that there are a bunch of OH species which are on neither list which leaves an ambiguity. ODNR should have had somebody proofread the document (R1003). I would think a lawyer could argue it either way. There is also a problem with the language on the actual permit application form (Form 170 / R999). Non-commercial permit is now $25/year, BTW.

$25!!!

Are they crazy!?!?

Non-commercial people aren't even making money on the animals. I remember when they first started this crap the non-comm permits were FREE!! Now there $25. Sadly the non-herp people that find stuff and then put it in an old aquarium till it dies don't know anything about this so it won't stop them.

It's just a way to make money and keep tabs on those that keep local herps. wouldn't suprise me if they tried to make it mandatory on all herps. That's it as soon as I'm out of grad school I'm leavin' Ohio.

I have been asking the same questions for a couple years now and have had numerous discussions with Carl and others about this. The only thing I can come up with is that they do not mind if you keep a captive bred individual of one of these species. Of course, you still have to pay the 25 buck fee every year. Here is a response that was forwarded to me from ODNR regarding an out of state individual obtaining a OH black king.

from wildinfo.wildlife@dnr.state.oh.us

"Your message was forwarded to the ODNR Division of Wildlife. You may want to refer to our website and check our herp regulations
(www.dnr.state.oh.us/wildlife), but Eastern black kingsnakes cannot be taken from the wild in Ohio without a permit. As for breeders in Ohio, you may want to check with the Northern Ohio Herpetological Society or Cincinnati Herp Society or Toledo Herp Society. The "gifter/seller" of all native herps must maintain records of who, when, and where any and all animals are distributed. You will have to check your state's regulations about import as well. Hope this is helpful - just let us know if you have other questions. Thanks for asking!"

So they say these animals cannot be taken from the wild, yet they acknowledge that there currently are individuals in OH who are working with OH specimens.

My best advice would be to try emailing the address above and hope you get a response. I would be greatly interested in hearing what they have to say.

I just e-mailed them and will post their response when I get it. I even used my fancy smancy professional signature:

Matthew Walker
Dept. of Biology
Kent State Univ.

I did reread the publication again and this time noticed that the last list of species was those that could be taken from the wild while the first list was ones you could not own. so the remainder may be ones you may own but not take from the wild?