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I got this girl from Pete Kahl as a het albino, produced from a jungle het to sunglow I believe.. I got her because I was speculting that she was actualy a jungle het. Now she was dark as a baby and has lightened up pretty dramaticly I can't quite capture just how yellow she has turned out at over 4.5 ft now but here are some pics.

Baby pic by Pete She started out dark

a month or so after I got her.. lighter

I took these a few days ago, she's pretty much yellow all over at just over 4.5, excuse the urate on her I didn't see it untill after I uploaded the pics..

I love the contrast between her tail color and body color..

I know what I think but if some of you jungle keepers want to chime in with an opinion I'd be glad to hear it.
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Ed Lilley, www.constrictorsnw.com

She is a beauty Ed, Sorry I have no experience with Jungles, Its like There seems to be either "FOR SURE JUNGLES" or "Poss.Jungles" and the Poss. Jungles everyone likes to say they are not, Its one of those "Topics" That I have seen go on and on and on, But noone seems to come up with a for sure way of telling Jungles from Non Jungles, Just that "If you have one you will know its a jungle" I think Jungles are like Pastels, some say Pastels are Co-Dom also, some say Line bred. Good luck, and I hope she proves out to be a jungle for you. She is beautiful.

I was wondering can a "Less Extreme" Jungle produce an "Extreme Jungle"? Produce ones that there is no IF's, AN's, OR BUT's, That its a jungle?
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www.executivereptiles.com

Im no expert but im pretty sure a less extreme jungle could produce a extreme jungle. Just like with most everything, the offsprings can very from bad to good.
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Chris Farmer
Explicit Reptiles

I say you got lucky once...................LoL. Honestly, I looked at her first without seeing the breeding she came from and was thinking she had a good chance but she didn't have the black stitching around her saddles like most jungles have. Then I thought to self unless she came from a hypo and sho nuff..........she did. So, i'd have to say she has a very good chance. Man if you got double lucky i'm taking you to Vegas with me!!!!!!!LoL

Ruben Michel

I know what your saying about the saddles, and outlines, but she realy dosen't have much for saddles accept the last three just before the tail saddles. They are still pretty thin but look at the color within them.

I don't know if it luck or just buying a lots of boas.. They like me at casinos. 8 out of 10 times I leave with empty pockets...LOL...
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Ed Lilley, www.constrictorsnw.com

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Ed Lilley, www.constrictorsnw.com

Ive spoken with Pete numerous times now on Jungles and how to make the determination as to which are and which arent. Recently I have been talking with him about determining albino jungles, which is even harder.

A few things he mentioned to me recently that is often not spoken of:

1. Circles around the edge of many of the saddles. Yes, this can and does happen often with normals but it seems to happen more consistantly with Jungles. Mine has them... and I just looked at Celia's kingsnake ad with multiple jungles and all of hers have it. Here is a picture that Peter Kahl sent me to help explain what I am reffering to:

At this link you can see a few of Celias that show the same thing http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=8&de=360673

2. More prominant head striping versus a normal. This aspect is harder for me to see. But nevertheless Pete mentioned it to me.

Other more commonly known attributes to look for include, obviously not all jungles have these traits ... what occasionally makes them so hard to call is when an individual gets the "short end of the stick" on most of the attributes:

3. Saddle coloration - Typically very consistant throughout the saddle. Often with thin black borders around the edges.

4. Overall intensified coloration - Often extremely apparent by a distinct difference between dorsal and lateral coloration. Like "Someone took a pain roller down their back", as I've heard someone describe it.

5. Increased white bordering in the tail splotch area.

6. Saddle Aberrancies

When I look at Ed's boa, it could be one of the individuals that got the short end of the stick on many of the above attributes. The aberrancies are unusual and not at all clear enough to label as a jungle to me. It looks to possibly have some increased white around the tail splotches but again... nothing conclusive. Saddle washout looks like a typical nice normal to me. Overall body coloration looks normal. Circles on the edge of the saddles... some but again, not conclusive. It is my opinion that it is probably not a jungle but it is possible.

Just for a one to one comparison here is Ed's above boa slapped up against a picture of my 04 jungle male (with no saddle pattern aberrancy):

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Take Care,

-Ryan Homsey

www.topnotchboas.com

The jungles from sweden, and the ones Jimmy Kajer owns don't have all of those traits.. the saddles don't have the bordering on all of the more wildly patterned animals. Here is a link to some from sweden.
http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=8&de=373979

I have also seen yellow jungles, and what would you think if the female I had had one more crossover from side stripe to side stripe? (like where they cross over at her neck) if you cross those side stripes over more than once youv'e got you classic chain pattern... Maybe a jungle could be high color, aberrant, or both. If you take away one of the classic things to look for on a jungle, from a jungle dose it make it a non jungle?

Not saying the described traits aren't the signs of a jungle but there may be more than most folks are looking for. Lines can change through time and just selective breeding (the normals folks have chosent to breed their jungle with) but you could also get ones that look more like the "old world style" jungle in any given litter, they are all related.

Either way I think they are about the most interesting morph out there, no 2 look alike..
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Ed Lilley, www.constrictorsnw.com

Out of that list of attributes certainly some, most, or even all of them could be non-present in the boa and it still could be a jungle. It seems to vary. Some get just the aberrancies... some get just the yellow color... some just get "jungly" looking saddles... etc. Some could get the short end of the stick on all the traits and could slip through the cracks as a normal.
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Take Care,

-Ryan Homsey

www.topnotchboas.com

Its hard to say but good luck proving it out.
Michael Burton
boaevolution