Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was wondering on how to sex them?? Is there an easy way or do I need to take him to the vet for sexing? I have him in a 20 gal tank with reptile sand the heat lights are a 100w daylamp and a 75w heat glo. During the day the high gets about 110 degrees at night it gets down to 90. Been feeding him collard greens mixed veggies and fruitblend bird food(he is not to interested in that) and once a week he gets crickets or mealworms all food is dusted with calcium. I did do my reading before I got him but more info is always welcome. Are there any care sheets the you would recomend that would be helpful as well. thank you for the help

CritterChick
0.0.1 BTW Tiqua
2.1 Nefertiti, Cleopatra,& Cesar

Welcome to the forum CritterChick!

Lots of very experienced and informed people lurk here.

I will let someone else address the sexing, it is not overly difficult, and does not require a vet, though it is a little bit of an art form.

There is an excellent caresheet at http://www.deerfernfarms.com/Uromastyx_Care.htm that I highly recommend you read, it is one of the few that pretty much everyone on here agrees is good.

The biggest problem I see is your tank size. There just is no way to create the proper temperature gradiant that the Uros need in a tank that small. (We are also discussing this down a few posts ). Their should be a hot spot somewhere between 115 and 120, but the uros also need to be able to thermoregulate, so you want a cooler side of the tank as well, at least to the low 90s. At night the tank can get even cooler, though I keep some heat on because I keep my house very cool.

The topic of feeding animal protein to the Uros has been widely debated, and you will hear various views. Depending on the age of your Uro feeding one a week may be ok. Juveniles can tolerate animal protein much better than the adult Uros can.

Are you also using a multivitamin powder? if not that would probably be a good thing to include. I use herptivite. The collard greens are a good choice to start, though you really want to rotate the greens as much as possible. Since I only have the one uro at this time, I rotate by bunch, buying a collard bunch - using it, then buying a different kind of green for the next week. Some of the greens, particularly collards, can bind calcium because their ratio is a little off, they are a good thing to include but you just don't want to feed them exclusively.

It is so nice to know that you researched before buying your new friend, if more people did many Uros would have much easier lives! Now it is just time to continue on in the learning process.

Welcome to the forum!

Elizabeth
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1.0 Mali Uro Archimedes (May he rest in peace)
0.0.1 Egyptian Uro Zuberi Mosca Khu (Mosca)
0.0 Fish
0.1 Sulcata Minnie
1.1 Iguanas Flik and Loki
0.1 Newfoundland Jasmine (RIP)
0.1 Feline Winter
Indiana & Wisconsin

>> Juveniles can tolerate animal protein much better than the adult Uros can.

Since Bradtort is new to the forum could you expand on this point of view for him. No I'm not starting sh*t, (as I have my own views on animal protein) it's so he my make an informed decission.

We sometimes forgit to give any reasoning behind a answer.

Example being tank size. My comment was from my attempt to use a 20 long. I really dont like a forty breeder either, my uro's seem to like the floor space of my bigger tanks.

Thanks
uro7

Good points all Uro7!

I am not sure if I actually said it, but what I had meant to convey was that a 40 gallon breeder was a *minimum* size. I actually kept my mali in a 4ft x 2ft enclosure, and I agree they certainly enjoy the space.

As for the crickets, why don't you share your views on it? I have not researched the digestive track of uromastyx as extensively as some of the breeders and keepers I respect, and they have repeatedly stated those points. I actually do not feed any animal protein, as the mali was never interested in it (he even allowed crickets to sit on his head) and they do not seem to be required for long term health. I am always very interested in hearing other people's opinions though! When I write those long responses I assume people will pipe in with alternate views, or additional info!

Elizabeth
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1.0 Mali Uro Archimedes (May he rest in peace)
0.0.1 Egyptian Uro Zuberi Mosca Khu (Mosca)
0.0 Fish
0.1 Sulcata Minnie
1.1 Iguanas Flik and Loki
0.1 Newfoundland Jasmine (RIP)
0.1 Feline Winter
Indiana & Wisconsin

Elizabeth

Well put, But rather than be a parrot, I'll give this referance.
On repticzone look for a post "crickets" 5/21/05. Uro fan who is a respected person on the site, gives mention to five or six studies (have'nt looked at all of them yet), on animal protein. That is where I base my opinion of no animal protein. I think I know who she is on this site, but don't want to post that with out her permission. If my guess is right, she is well respected here too.

Until this post I'd forgot about those studies, so thank you for jump starting my noggin.

4.3.2 mali
1.0.1 geryi

Oh thats great! I didn't even realize studies had been done. I am much more familiar with education and technology journals than herpotological. I am so glad you replied back!

Thanks again!

Elizabeth
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1.0 Mali Uro Archimedes (May he rest in peace)
0.0.1 Egyptian Uro Zuberi Mosca Khu (Mosca)
0.0 Fish
0.1 Sulcata Minnie
1.1 Iguanas Flik and Loki
0.1 Newfoundland Jasmine (RIP)
0.1 Feline Winter
Indiana & Wisconsin

I am so glad you replied back!

Yourwelcome

Jim

4.3.2 mali's
1.0.1 geryi's
0.2.0 Huskies

“Uro fan who is a respected person on the site, gives mention to five or six studies (have'nt looked at all of them yet), on animal protein.”

I believe the post you are referring to is giving links to credible publications showing uromastyx as herbivores. The resources cited were not about animal protein.
Dozens of credible resources on this same subject can be found by searching out articles and publications through the internet, books, and magazines. Credible sources can also be found by seeking out obscure and hard to find publications through larger university libraries. Depending on the credibility of the source, appropriate weight should be given (i.e. caresheet vs university research paper).

“That is where I base my opinion of no animal protein”

I sincerely hope that no one would base their opinion on a subject solely on my stance- especially if they have not read all of the resources I have provided on the topic.
I am not certain if I have ever taken the stance that insects in small amounts is detrimental to the health of uromastyx. In fact, here is my ending quote from the post you are referencing:

“Again, for the record – I am not saying that an occasional insect will do harm to your uromastyx as after all, it has been proven that a very small amount of unintentional insect consumption does regularly take place in a uromastyx natural environment. I just dispute the logic that uromastyx are omnivores and tend to cringe when someone comes to this conclusion based on the fact that some uromastyx will eat insects.”

To give a little background- the person I was replying to in the above post was someone who was unwilling to consider anything I was offering and just wanted to argue without valid points. The person’s argument was that if uromastyx were not supposed to eat insects, then they would not eat them if fed in captivity and that interest in captivity meant they were supposed to eat them. The poster also suggest that if uromastyx were really herbivores, they would officially be labeled herbivores.

I even attempted to prompt a little thinking with this person by offering the following statement regarding insect consumption:

“Had you read the few links I provided and come back with the point that the long term study concluded that up to 1% (figure is actually lower) accidental consumption takes place and therefore animal protein in very limited amounts in captivity may not differ that much from nature and therefore would probably not be harmful or could possibly be beneficial, then you might have had a valid point.”

I just wanted to jump in and clarify the details of the post that uro7 mentions in this thread.

This means nothing as do most of my posts, I used to have a young guy who worked for me, but was called away to Kuwait (Desert Storm). When he came back he had pix of 3 to 4 ft uros in their camp walking around with army helmets on their backs. One pic had uros eating peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, and clumps of spam, yes spam. Like I said, means nothing, but ya can't make this stuff up. Uros are wacky.

Thanks Debb for clearing the post up.
But I didn't base my decission on just you. I did read a couple of those referances, plus info from other sites I visit. The post was ment as a way for more information to be gathered. Didn't want to say no insects, but here go look at this and decide for yourself.

Thanks again
Jim

Now this is the type of discussion we need more of! I am having a terrible time locating the aforementioned post with the links. Could one of you email them to me, and/or maybe let me know some locations you have had luck finding materials? I work for Purdue University so I have access to pretty much any material, I just have to know what I am looking for!

I am so excited!

email - synapzklr @ gmail . com (minus spaces of course )

Elizabeth
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1.0 Mali Uro Archimedes (May he rest in peace)
0.0.1 Egyptian Uro Zuberi Mosca Khu (Mosca)
0.0 Fish
0.1 Sulcata Minnie
1.1 Iguanas Flik and Loki
0.1 Newfoundland Jasmine (RIP)
0.1 Feline Winter
Indiana & Wisconsin

Elizabeth

Tried to email but it didn't work. That thread hasn't been moved to the archives yet, so here a the references from that post.

http://www.csun.edu/~ree 77914/web.pdfs/liolaemid.herbivory.PNAS.pdf

http://webhost.au.ac.be/funmorph/anthony/pdfs/Herrel_&_De_Vrre_J_Exp_Biol.pdf

http://www.csun.edu/~ree77914/hernandez_proposal.pdf

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-binabstract/67500198/ABSTRACT

http://www.fortunecity.com/greenfield/runningbrook/729/index.htm

Foley WJ, Bouskila A, shkolnik A, Choshniak (1992)
Microbial digestion in the herbivours lizzard aegyptius
(Agamidae) J Zool Lond 226: 387-398

Zari TA (1991) The influnce of body mass and temperature on the standard metabolic rate of the herbivorours desert lizzard, Uromastyx microlepis.
J Thermal Biol 16: 129-133

Zari TA (1996) Effects of body mass and temperature on the standard metabolic rate of the desert lizzard, Uromastyx philby.
J Arid Environ 33:457-461

These are all suggested site in that post (none from me).

Purdue? Guess this IU fan can forget that your a boiler maker. I'm in southern Indiana myself.

Jim

4.3.2 Mali's
1.0.1 Geryi"s
0.2.0 Huskies

Thank you Jim!

Yes, I suppose we can put aside our petty differences for the sake of Uro-kind

IU has such a beautiful campus, I often wish we had gotten some of the trees and "hills" as well!

Elizabeth
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1.0 Mali Uro Archimedes (May he rest in peace)
0.0.1 Egyptian Uro Zuberi Mosca Khu (Mosca)
0.0 Fish
0.1 Sulcata Minnie
1.1 Iguanas Flik and Loki
0.1 Newfoundland Jasmine (RIP)
0.1 Feline Winter
Indiana & Wisconsin

Your welcome

Here's one I ran across last night
http://herplit.com

4.3.2. mali's
1.0.1. geryi's
0.2.0. huskies

>>During the day the high gets about 110 degrees at night it gets down to 90.

This concerns me a little bit - are you turning your lights off at night? You definitely should be, and the night temperatures should drop quite a bit. If your house gets quite cold at night (say, below mid-60s) you can use a ceramic heat emitter on a thermostat to maintain a slightly higher temp, but most houses are fine. Mine drop to about 68F at night, give or take a few degrees.

I agree that 20 gallon (even 20 long) is too small for a proper temp gradient. A 40 gallon breeder is a good starting size if you can't manage larger now. And the care sheet recommended above is very good.

Welcome!
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Torey
Eugene, Oregon, USA
1.1 Saharan Uros (Joe and Arthur)
3.0 Mali Uros (Tank, Turtle, and Spike)
1.1 Ornate Uros (Scuttlebutt and Shazzbot)
2.1.2 Green Anoles (Bowser, Sprocket, Leeloo)
1.1 Felis domesticus (Roscolux and Jenny)

I can switch tanks to a 40gal. I have extra tankes I never know when I am going to get a new critter. lol From the reading that I have done I think that he is a male. Thank you everyone for the info.
CritterChick

0.1 Mali
0.0.1 BTW Tiqua
2.1 Leos Nefertiti, Cleopatra,& Cesar