Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have been breeding rats for a while now (for one stubborn snake) and am looking for an alternative to the store brands. I would like to buy in bulk to save some money and was hoping there were some options. thank you

I used to use a high quality dogfood and fresh veges and some fruit and cereals(leftovers from our stock)..I had some very healthy rats with big litters...
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Thank you!!!

you may want to consider staying away from dog food with food dyes,the general thought is that it may be harmful to reptiles. i use american fare from k-mart,it's about 25 cents per pound.and as the other poster mentioned supplements are important.have fun!

dog food isnt healthy for the rats or your snakes. most dog foods have red dye in them which is harmless to dogs and rats but can kill your snake. my local pet store has bulk food(the stuff that is dispensed into bags and weighed)i get the hamster/gerbil diet that is only .79/lb. and i also feed kaytee rat lab blocks. i have also heard that mazuri has the best food and i think you can buy it in bulk. check out the feeder food forum for more info, they are a lot of help over there.
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"it takes a small person to beat a defenseless animal, and an even smaller person to eat it."

"it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"
1.0.0 bearded dragon (spaz)
1.1.0 green iguana (zephyr,F and Liz,M)
0.0.1 columbian tegu (diablo)
1.1.0 knight anole
0.1.0 green anole
0.1.0 asian longtail grass lizard
1.1.0 golden gecko
1.0.0 ball python (guinness)
0.0.5 oriental firebellied toad
0.0.1 green treefrog
0.0.1 barking treefrog
0.0.1 cuban masked treefrog
0.0.1 gray treefrog
0.1.0 gulf hammock rat snake (fluffy)
0.1.0 eastern kingsnake (ms. king,kingy)
0.1.0 siberian husky (blue)
1.1.0 ratties (bonnie and clyde)
0.1.0 hedgie (karma)

Dog food is fine. Most doesnt mean all. Check the ingredients of the dog food and avoid the ones with the red dye.
I use a mixture of dry cob,dog food and sunflower seeds. I get it all from the feed store. Those store bought foods come with alot of filler that the rats dont eat.

the main ingredient is grain products...I do agree that dogfood isnt even good for dogs but if used in conjunction with fresh veges(carrots and the all important greens(spinach,kale,dandelion greens) and whole grain cereals from the grocery, and the occasional yogurt treats(especially for nursing moms), you will have healthy rats..Compare these rats with the frozen kind and tell me again that its a bad diet...Ive been there and seen the difference, not only size but fur quality and muscle tone...A good diet need not be expensive..
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Thank you very much. I do appreciate all of the advice and warnings.

I bred rodents for years (mostly mice, but a few rats) and I tried several different rodent chows and a variety of dog foods.

I finally went with Mazuri Rodent Chow. It is reasonably cheap if you order it in 50lb bags through a local feed store.

Dog food is cheaper if you buy junk, but quality dog foods aren't that cheap. And 50lbs of good rodent chow last 2-3 times longer than 50lbs of dog food because it is more nutrient dense (the rodents eat less volume per day). Furthermore, you don't have to supplement the diet with other stuff because the rodent chow is designed after years of research to be optimized for breeding rodents.

Also, rodent chow makes the rodents smell less. Feeding dog food makes them stink and dirty their cages faster. Because they have to eat more of it due to its low nutrient density, they produce more waste and their feces smells worse. And the higher protein content makes them drink more and produce more urine and their urine smells more.

Don't believe me? Try the comparison. Try weighing out 20lbs of dog food and feed them that and when they run out, weigh out 20lbs of rodent chow and do the same. See if you it doesn't last longer and make them less messy.

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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

I've been breeding rodents since 1992 on the scale of about 2,000/month. In the past I've used Harland-Tec and Furry Friends, and Mazuri. I used to feed them exclusively those particular feeds (at different times), then started to mix them. I also started to mix the Safeway Tasty Nuggets in with the rodent blocks. Bottom line is that the rats and mice both prefer the dogfood over the rodent blocks. I use self-feeders on top of the cage and I would fill up the food bins once a week and the only food left was the rodent blocks. Rodents prefer dogfood, pretty simple.

Rats eat a lot of food, either rodent block or dog food. Dogfood is cheaper and the results are the same - large litters. Mice that feed on rodent block smell the same as mice that eat dogfood. Don't make it out like the 2 foods are that much different - READ THE LABELS. They are 98% the same.

Kerby...

I'm not sure I can speak to whether they smell better or worse, or whether the nutition is better or worse, but even working on a MUCH smaller scale I had the same experience as far as preferences. I use a cheap store brand dog food I found that has roughly the same fat/protien/water content as commercial rat and mouse pellets (and no red dye). At least once they've had the dog food it seems my mice would rather starve than eat the mouse food. If I fill the bin with a mixture, they will eat ALL of the dog food and don't seem to touch the rest until they are starving.

Now, to be fair, I prefer to eat ding-dongs over salads. That doesn't prove they're good for me...

**Now, to be fair, I prefer to eat ding-dongs over salads. That doesn't prove they're good for me...**

Yes, but the difference is that the dog food and rodent blocks are made up of 98% the same thing..... Your ding dongs and salads are the opposite. A fair comparison from dogfood vs rodent blocks would be "I prefer Ho-Hos over ding-dongs". They are still 98% the same thing. They just look different.

Kerby...

p.s. I prefer ding-dongs over salads as well LOL

>>Your ding dongs and salads are the opposite.

I was giving a bit of an extreme example. Just saying that the fact that they like them may not be very meaningful.

>>A fair comparison from dogfood vs rodent blocks would be "I prefer Ho-Hos over ding-dongs". They are still 98% the same thing. They just look different.

However, as far as long term nutrition goes, 2% (by weight) could be a huge difference. I'm sure that's far more than the total weight of everything of value besides fat and protein. (Not to mention that there are different types of fat and protein).

Or...they could be nutritionally identical. The point is there really isn't enough info on the bag to judge that for sure.

Since my mice seem healthy and happy, I'm not going to sweat it too much. My biggest concern is that the company that makes the dog food I've been using recently changed some part of the production process, making the pieces a tiny bit smaller and now they fall through my feeding bins! AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

i use american fare dog food from k-mart,it works well with 1/2" hardware cloth.have fun!

Thanks, I've been looking for an alternative...

I tried the mazuri rodent food for awhile and found that they stunk alot more, I switched back to my mixture of cob,seeds,dog food and they smell much better.

Absolutely not true. I have used Safeway Tasty Nuggets for almost 14 years now with no ill-effects what-so-ever. To say that feeding dogfood to your rodents and then the rodents to your snakes is harmful to either is very ignorant on your part. There isn't any red-dye in the dog food that I use and if you look at the ingredient labels of Harland-Tec, Mazuri, Furry Friends, and the Safeway Tasty Nuggets that I use you will find that the fat, protein, and the top 4 ingredients in all, are almost identical. Don't get too hung up on rodent blocks. Rodents did just fine before they came along.

Kerby...

.............where you found this info on dog food killing reptiles,i'm a curious type.thanks.

whether its "scientifically formulated" or not is just not healthy.Yea, they might do okay and grow fine but thats it.Also many people cant get Mazuri except in little tiny amounts at petstores..I tend to disagree that high quality dogfood has to be the more expensive brand as well, read the label, It all starts with some grain product, with a form of protien and various vitamins and minerals added..
Still unless your breeding HUGE quantities of rats(and this guy said he is breeding for one snake so thats doubtful) then adding fresh veges makes ALL the difference in the world and is not that expensive or time consuming.......Like I said I buy frozen from a BIG reputable company now but they just dont compare to the rats I bred myself.
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has a GREAT product. Although, it's not my staple diet for my crocs, I recommend their diets highly. If you contact Mazuri directly, they can sometimes ship directly to you, OR, they will find a dealer close to you. Since they also formulate diets for livestock, etc. they can be purchased at farm and feed stores. I emailed Mazuri directly and they sent me a 50lb bag of their small croc feed and a 40lb bag of their large croc feed. If you are interested in places to purchase their products, call them directly and they should be able to find a place for you.

Chris
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U.A.P.P.E.A.L.
Uniting A Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League
www.uappeal.org

the two bags that I received from them were FREE samples that they sent me so that I could test their product. It's worth a shot to contact them and try their products one way or the other.

Chris

>>has a GREAT product. Although, it's not my staple diet for my crocs, I recommend their diets highly. If you contact Mazuri directly, they can sometimes ship directly to you, OR, they will find a dealer close to you. Since they also formulate diets for livestock, etc. they can be purchased at farm and feed stores. I emailed Mazuri directly and they sent me a 50lb bag of their small croc feed and a 40lb bag of their large croc feed. If you are interested in places to purchase their products, call them directly and they should be able to find a place for you.
>>
>>Chris
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>>U.A.P.P.E.A.L.
>>Uniting A Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League
>>www.uappeal.org
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U.A.P.P.E.A.L.
Uniting A Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League
www.uappeal.org

.........the insane shipping prices,50lbs. of mazuri 6f is $20.82 PLUS shipping and handling is $22.97 for a total of $43.79!!! i don't think anybody would say that mazuri is not an excellent product but there are better options for most of us.

i started out with mazuri for my rats and it worked great,then i combined a 50/50 mix of mazuri and dyeless dog food and found no differance in health or litter size,finally i switched to 100% dog food and NOTHING has changed,i do supplment nuts,fruits etc.the dog food is about 24 cents a lb.if it wasn't working well i would buy other products.i think we (and i'm including myself) are seduced by advertising that says if you spend more money you'll get a better product,that's not always the case.have fun!

>>Also many people cant get Mazuri except in little tiny amounts at petstores..

Typically most pet stores won't carry the large 25lb bags as standard stock items because there isn't a high enough demand - but they can special order it for you. if a store carries the small 2lb bags of mazuri then they should easily be able to order the larger 25lb bags too because they are already a distributor for the company. I've had a pet store and a farm feed store over the years do this for me. I ordered it often enough that they always kept a bag or two on hand for me knowing I'd be in to get it on a regular basis.
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PHWyvern

twh, the thing about the red dye has been a pretty long discussion in the feeder food forum. there has also been many articles written on the subject that you can find throughout the net. and about the dog food, i was just saying what i was told, i have been told by a lot of people that "dog food is for dogs, cat food is for cats and rat food is for rats"i cant even tell you how many times i have been told that, but if they are the essentially the same, than people are just bs'ing me about it. i am very new to keeping rats(since the last hamburg show dec.3 to be exact)so i have just been taking everything in stride. i didnt mean to start anything. thanks for the correction though
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"it takes a small person to beat a defenseless animal, and an even smaller person to eat it."

"it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"
1.0.0 bearded dragon (spaz)
1.1.0 green iguana (zephyr,F and Liz,M)
0.0.1 columbian tegu (diablo)
1.1.0 knight anole
0.1.0 green anole
0.1.0 asian longtail grass lizard
1.1.0 golden gecko
1.0.0 ball python (guinness)
0.0.5 oriental firebellied toad
0.0.1 green treefrog
0.0.1 barking treefrog
0.0.1 cuban masked treefrog
0.0.1 gray treefrog
0.1.0 gulf hammock rat snake (fluffy)
0.1.0 eastern kingsnake (ms. king,kingy)
0.1.0 siberian husky (blue)
1.1.0 ratties (bonnie and clyde)
0.1.0 hedgie (karma)

I personally like these long threads with lots of differing opinions..Its a good thing as long as its civil.All the different ideas and experiences is how ya learn....
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..........correction but rather i was trying to educate mtself.i too have seen many posts about dyes,but have never seen any docuemation.my take on the dyes is that they have no possible benfit to the user,there only meant to attrach buyers,so i think it's wise to avoid them at all costs.

like cee4 said these long posts are a great way to learn.have fun!

Hey everyone,

Thank you all for the awesome advice. I enjoyed reading everybody's opinion. I actually spent about an hour at my local feed store reading the bags of dog food looking for dyes and couldn't find any. I also asked the clerks and they said that most are dye free now and all should be soon (if not already). Big thanks again!!!!

I'm glad that you went out and found the info yourself. And can make sound decisions unlike a lot of people on these forums (nobody inparticular) that just like to regurge bad and incorrect info.

Kerby...

Same basic ingredients...Soy or corn meal, meatproduct and vitamins/minerals and they charge 3.00 a can....someone is making huge amounts of money off petfoods..
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...........moisture (water) is in that canned monitor food,canned dog food usually runs about 80%.