Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello, I haven't posted on the kingsnake forums for quite some time. Anyway, a friend of mine who had 3 boas in one cage, decided to give me his female (columbian red tail at about 4.5'). I've got her in a cage that is 8'/2'/2' right now. Anyway, I know how to care for a snake, but it's the feeding I have a couple questions about. I know how often to feed her, however I am looking for advice on the most humane way to terminate the rat. I have just used the WHACK! method before, but I really don't like doing that, especially when the rats are getting bigger and bigger. I've heard of some people placing the rat in a jar and letting it run out of oxygen however. I am wondering how humane this actually is though. From what I know about it, when you run out of oxygen and start breathing in carbondioxide you basically just get very light headed until you pass out and die.

The other question I had was about where to feed her. My friend would always remove his snakes and feed them in another location. I've heard varying reponses to this though. I've been told by many people that if you handle your snake often then feeding her in her own cage shouldn't be an issue. Considering that she will be handled often, is this a good idea? Also we have to consider that even though she's in a new cage now (and doesn't seem to be stressing at all suprisingly), she has ALWAYS been fed away from her living location. I am just looking for advice on this, because if I can feed her in her own cage, I would prefer to do this.

Anyway, thanks for any help you can provide.

Oh, and her's some pics of my new girl...

Oh, I mentioned before that she was columbian. However, I am not 100% certain on this. My friend says she is Peruvian, but he wasn't completely sure either. From her markings, can any of you tell what she is?

Congrats on the new boa. She looks like a colombian bci. As far as feeding her, I prefer to feed my boas frozen thawed. It's alot less messy and you don't have to deal with killing the rat. When I used to kill the feed animal, I would hold the rat by the tail and swing it's head against the edge of a table and stun or kill it. The problem is sometimes you get a bleeder and that's where it can be messy. I'm sure someone here has a better way to kill them, but like I said I now use f/t, it's so much easier.
Since your boa has already been fed in a separate container if I were you I would continue with it. When you feed outside the cage you don't have to worry about her eating the substrate and you don't have to deal with feeding responses when you open her cage.

Thanks for the reply. I am thinking I will try feeding her in her cage at first, but if she seems to get even slightly agressive when I reach into the cage, then I will go back to feeding her in a seperate area (though where, I don't know). I doubt my wife would like me feeding her on the dining room table.

Also, I hate tried the frozen rat thing before and I just hated it. It takes too long for my taste. I mean, if I have to I will whack the rat and knock it out as I've done before, but I'd rather find a less messy and less time consuming method than using frozen rats.

In any case, I know what I'm doing. Just looking for any potential alternative methods. I've actually been handling this snake for over a year, so she is already used to me too, which should make our bond a little easier.

Grab it by the tail and swing it's head onto pavement. Instant death everytime.

But prekilled is the way to go. No effort involved and no killing among other benefits. Just let it thaw for a couple hours and toss it in.

- Damian

what i sometimes do with my med-large-or jumbo s is hold them on a flat surface and put a strong pipe or instrument right behind thier head, rat should be on its belly, (i sometimes use a framing hammer). put pressure on the back of the head and push down on the neck area then pull the tail hard and put more pressure and... well you probably get the idea by now. i have used the WHACK method before but noticed sometimes the rat suffers. some people have mixed emotions about this method but it works for me. a little practice and its fairly easy.
this almost always puts the prey down instantly with no suffering.

If you hit the rats head against the pavement hard enough, he will die instantly. No suffering whatsoever.

I use this same method, except a screwdriver istead of a hammer.
It's really the quickest, cleanest way.

Also, you can thaw out rats quickly by putting them in a bucket of hot water. Is 15 minutes too long to wait?
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sounddjinn@yahoo.com

Things always get cloudy just before transformation.

I raise my own feeders and have used several methods:

1) Whack em, as stated is fairly common but can be messy.

2) Break the neck, Works well on small to med but hard to do with larges. Also, even with smaller, I've had a few where the tail skin just came off. Now you have a rat, maybe not dead, with no covering on it's handle.

3) Gas em, never tried this, not sure how I would decide how many to gas at a time. My wife said H$!! no to rats in the freezer and to be honest, I wholeheartedly agree.

4) Choke em, a new method I figured out recently. I have a pair of large hemostats, probably about 14 or 16 inches in length. I select my feeders from the racks in the garage and put them into a small critter keeper (the small plastic terrarium commonly sold in pet stores). In the snake room, I use these hemostats to remove the individual rodents. I use the hemostats to grab a selected rodent by the neck, clamping down so it can't breathe. Can't be worse than what the snake would do to live prey. It will gasp and convulse for a short period, when it relaxes, I release the rodent and regrasp it by the tail....off to wiggle the now dead rodent in front of the next to feed snake. I feed my snakes from smallest to largest and always save my best eaters for last, that way I rarely throw a rodent away.

All the above methods work but none are for the faint of heart. IMO, if'n ya can't kill the food, either buy it already dead or stop keeping animals that eat other animals. With few exceptions, feeding live is not safe. Exceptions being, the feeders don't have teeth (pinkies/fuzzies) and in rare cases the snake won't eat dead food. I have one of those, a female BRB that came to me as an adult, not only will she not eat dead, she will only eat mice. At least she doesn't seem to be picky about the color. I still stun them though,
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Thanks,

Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB)
4.12 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
1.0 Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 Het for Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
1.0 BCI albino / het-anery
0.1 BCI Hypo / het-albino
0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
0.1 BCI Hypo (possible super)
1.0 BCI albino het stripe
1.0 BCI salmon hypo
0.1 BCI ghost

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Thanks for all the advice. It looks like my throw-em-in-a-jar idea may not be the best idea. I have whacked them before, but I don't really like doing it. But now that I think about it, my snake has been feeding using this method her whole life, so I may just want to keep it this way since that's how she's used to it anyway, still twitching a little.

I agree with the rest... I like the frozen food option. If you have a live one I like to put the rat in a plastic grocery bag and then whip it into the hard ground a few times. This usually does the job and is not as messy if you get a "bleeder"

Andy

The grocery bag thing. That's a damn good idea. I like that. Considering tha tI intend to be wearing latex gloves when feeding anyway, this wouldn't be much of an issue.

I'm very surprised to see noone has mentioned dry ice! We raise alot of rats for food, and after all the slamming, and thunking, the best thing we have found is the dry ice method. First you find a sympathetic ice house close by, get them to sell you a small chunk of dry ice, (if you tell them what it's for you'd be amazed at how fascinated they become!) Get together about 10-15 rodents, put them in a Rubbermaid container (with no holes), put chunk of dry ice in a bowl, add water (notice all the cool smoke!)place bowl with ice in Rubbermaid, seal lid, come back in about 10 minutes, and all have gone to sleep! They can then be neatly frozen for future use.
Rick & Sherry

Sorry guys but slamming the rats down is inhumane in my opinion. I have done it in the past and as well all know, there are times when it does not work quite as well as we want. So, here's what you do.....

Go to Walmart and buy a 7oz CO2 container used for paintball guns. It will cost you $10. Stop by a welding supplier, Lowe's, Menards etc, and purchase a regulator ($10). While you are there, buy some tubing for it ($3). When all is said and done you will have about $25 invested in the setup.

Take the CO2 and screw the regulator onto it. Attach the hose to the regulator and then run the hose into a small (or large depending upon how many rats you are doing at a time) rubbermaid tub. Since I use this as my permanent setup, I have the tube glued into place and the CO2 container securely mounted to the shelf that all of this sits on.

Now, all you need to do is to throw the rat/rats into the rubbermaid tub and close the lid. Turn the regulator on for 5 seconds and within a few minutes the rats are all soundly and permanently asleep. It is quick, humane and you don't have to deal with buying dry ice. There is no better method for dispatching rats that I have ever found and it is the only true humane way that I know of.

Griz

You're saying... Gas the rats? I don't know how you could say instant death is inhumane... But ok. We all have our opinions. If you swing the rat by the tail, and their head hits pavement... He will die instantly... Maybe it feels inhumane or violent to some, but that is just our human minds at work. Death is painless and instant.

- Damian

Damian, you know full well that there have been times where the rat did not die right away, so yes, I would say that your method is much less humane then mine. Mine works 100% of the time. The rats simply fall asleep. There is no blood or mess in which to clean up. It works in under a minute and the rat does not know any better. Your method relies on luck each and every time. My method relies on proven science that has yet to fail, even once for me.

Griz

I agree, death is death,when it is instant! You have all had a time where you whack the living heck out of the rats head and it doesnt die right away. or its head turns into a bloody mess. We all know the rat must die, either by our hands,or for live feeding, by the snakes clutches. However, I think that if there is multiple option out there I would choose the most humane. Humane meaning less tramatic for the prey item.

Griz,
I like that method, it would be less traumatic than the bungy jumping with out the bungy. Just out of curiousity, how many times can you gas them with the 7oz CO2 in a 16"x24" rubbermaid ?
Thanks, Mike

I actually use a 12oz bottle and I will gas approximately 50-75 per month and I am still on the same bottle after 6 months. It will cost you about $3 to get it filled each time.

Griz

Thanks, Griz N/P

I would suggest pithing. It's taking a knife and placing the tip in the hollow at the back of the skull, right where skull and spine meet. Apply pressure and since the bone is weakest back there, it should just pop in. It's instant death and relatively painless...as long as you get past the first initial 'poking'. Twitching might occur but it incites a better feeding response since the rat is still moving and potrays the illusion of being alive.

F/T is a good way if you want to run the chance of overthawing and having to clean up exploded rat from your hungry snake while smelling like a rat. I feed my Suriname chickens, ones that just grew in their pin feathers and small rabbits. I pith the rabbits because of their claws and teeth but I've never had a chicken injure my snake.