Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here is the reply I recieved from ODNR on a question that asked earlier about the unlisted species on the reptile regulations publication. Ignore the scientific institution stuff as I used my Kent State e-mail and such.

Dear Matthew,

Thank you for taking the time to write us with your questions. You are correct in that the first list of animals mentioned in Publication #3, Reptiles and Amphibians Licensing and Regulations, are those currently considered endangered in Ohio. They cannot be possessed, bred, or sold in Ohio in most cases. Exceptions would be their possession under a Wild Animal Permit issued by the Division of Wildlife for educational or scientific use, or their possession under a Wild Animal Propagation Permit with the animals having been legally obtained outside of Ohio.

The second list under “Wild-Captured Native Reptiles and Amphibians” shows those relatively common species that an Ohio resident may possess in a quantity no more than 4, taken from the wild. You may collect and possess these species with a Wild Animal Propagation Permit. No animal taken from the wild can be sold

Eastern Box Turtles, Spotted Turtles, Eastern Fox Snakes, and Black Kingsnakes, while all considered native to Ohio and appearing on the last list of animals in this publication called “Native Amphibians and Reptiles” may not be taken from the wild in Ohio due to concerns about their populations and habitat, and the risk that any type of collection may pose. These animals can be possessed under a Wild Animal Propagation Permit so long as the animals were obtained legally from outside of Ohio or captively produced in Ohio and obtained from a licensed person. They may be obtained in Ohio as mentioned, as long as they were originally produced or legally and the proper licensing is followed. Permanent establishments that are accredited and approved may also possess these animals from various sources under a Wild Animal Permit for research, education, or other scientific use and study.

If you would like additional information about obtaining reptiles and amphibians and the licensing requirements you may wish to contact the Law Enforcement Section of the Wildlife District 3 Office, which serves your area, at 330-644-2293. Information on Wild Animal Permits for educational and scientific study can be requested from the Law Enforcement Permit Coordinator, Ron Ollis, at 614-265-6315. I hope this information is helpful and thank you again for contacting us.

That's how they've explained it to me. I legally breed Eastern Box turtles, Eastern Fox snakes, Black Kingsnakes, and some other Ohio herps. One thing further... the limit of 4 also counts for amphibian eggs for people over 17 yrs of age. My wildlife officer explained to me that the reference about legally possessing "up to 25 amphibian eggs, tedpoles or nymphs" applies only to minors.

One more thing... I believe it's legal to kill box turtles, just not to possess them. I would think we could change that if we're careful. I wouldn't want the state to ban positioning herps for pics in the field or anything, which could result happen {Look what PA is trying to do!).
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Jamie W.

(url)http://rosyboas.tripod.com(/url)

As I understand it, there is no law against killing any herps.
Unbeleivable.

That needs to change if the concern is population demise. It makes no sense...almost like it was an oversight.

That's similar to what I said in an earlier post. That the ODNR is not actually doing anything to help the populations of Ohio herps with its regulations. It just limits the ability for breeders and hobbyists who know the law, and abide by it, to keep and breed Ohio herps.

1) It is still legal to kill non-endangered herps.

2) There is little to no habitat protection for critical habitat.

3) Unknowing individuals who don't keep up with laws pertaining to herps, or just plain don't care, still take herps like Box Turtles to keep as pets. Alot of times these are kept in horrid conditions until they die.

So where is the real threat? ODNR needs to rethink their position on these issues.

I don't think bashing ODNR is necessarily fair or productive. Could the regulations be improved? Sure. But they done some positive things. The fact that commercial and noncommercial captive breeding of native herps is allowed is actually quite progressive. As far as protecting habitat, there are positive things going on. In southeast Ohio several of the wildlife areas and nature preserves have recently been expanded.

Remember also the officers can only enforce what is on the books.

In years past, there were some dirtbags who were collecting dozens of ringnecks, racers, watersnakes etc and selling them for next to nothing at swap meets. It was really sick.

I remember a certain person (who ended up getting busted) who bragged to me many years ago of driving around in his truck route (he was a truck driver) and collecting box turtles on the roads whenever he saw them and then selling them.

I also remember the days of people (dirtbags again I should say) taking "herping" trips...and saying things like "I hope I collect enough to pay for my trip". I think ODNR and other state agencies have done a lot to stop that kind of activity.

As for the wanton killing thing...again...I bet that was a simple oversight, and that, if it is brought to their attention...perhaps they would consider amending it. I have a bit of confidence after our vernal pond victory...maybe the GCHS will write some letters.

It does sort of bother me to think that someone could, if they wanted to...go a-snake wacking all day long...and I'd be the one in jail for taking their wacking stick from them and pummeling them with it.

I'm will not knock ODNR though. I honestly think the law was made for the right reasons...there's a couple of things I'd like to see changed, but for the most part, it's pretty sound. The permit system allows for those who are serious about the animals and have a legitimate reason to keep them to do so.
I like to think that the people who would go through the trouble of the permit system are people who know what they are doing. It also puts more individual value on each animal (with the registering and PIT tagging...etc). I think it would make people think of each animal as less "expendible".

I would have to say my last post was not well thought out. I tend to forget about people who would just collect animals from the wild to make a few dollars. I tend to think how the law affects me as an individual and how much it would cost to own one Black Ratsnake. However I guess it really is not much worse than paying for my dogs license and I do that.

The law will not stop people from illegally harvesting reptiles, but without the law these acts would be legal and not punishable.