Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Exotic pets underregulated
Monday, January 09, 2006

Next month in Hamburg, 55 miles east of Harrisburg, "one of the largest reptile shows on the East Coast" will be held, with more than 200 vendors. Snakes, lizards, amphibians, invertebrates and rodents, and even some cages and books, will be bought and sold.

Attendees are advised to leave their pets at home and not bring any endangered, protected or native Pennsylvania species. But venomous snakes are allowed.

The exotic pet fanciers will do it again in Hamburg in June, October and December, just in time for the Christmas shopping season. Also make note that the Lancaster County Reptile Show will be held at the Lititz Community Center in March.
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There will be a lot of people attending these events, including possibly some undercover folks from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, if their budget can stand it, to ensure that no endangered species are involved. The Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission might show up to make sure no native copperheads or eastern rattlesnakes are being sold.

But no one will be checking on the trade in nonnative venomous snakes and other potentially lethal "exotic pets." That's because Pennsylvania is unlike California and Massachusetts, which ban the possession of exotic animals, including lions, tigers and other large mammals, and many other states which require permits to possess exotics. Pennsylvania has nothing on the books to prevent the kid next door from going out and getting himself a pet Gabon viper or a king cobra to make life interesting for him and you.

Most of the 8,000 venomous snake bites that occur annually in the United States are caused by native snakes, but increasing numbers of people are showing up in emergency rooms with bites from exotic snakes. A local emergency room recently saw an individual with a bite from a puff adder, a large and dangerous viper native to Africa and the Arabian peninsula. Time is of the essence in treating the bites of poisonous snakes and not every hospital has the appropriate antivenin on hand.

Venomous snakes are far from "pets," as that word is commonly understood. They are dangerous animals that belong in the wilds of their native environment or in zoos, not in someone's apartment or house.

Must Pennsylvania suffer a death from an exotic reptile before the Legislature finally joins the ranks of states that recognize the danger they pose?
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U.A.P.P.E.A.L.
Uniting A Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League
www.uappeal.org

I read the Mission Statement at UAPPEAL.ORG and I want to know where this organization stands as far as protecting the current laws governing the state of PA. Is this organization about to propose a change or consider to submit a new request to have further restrictions in the pet trade in the state of PA?

Hi,

If you wish to discuss uappeal, please send me an email privately (goini04@hotmail.com). Most likely posts will be removed if discussed on the open forum.

Thanks,

Chris

>>I read the Mission Statement at UAPPEAL.ORG and I want to know where this organization stands as far as protecting the current laws governing the state of PA. Is this organization about to propose a change or consider to submit a new request to have further restrictions in the pet trade in the state of PA?
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U.A.P.P.E.A.L.
Uniting A Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League
www.uappeal.org

I was replying to your original post after reading UAPPEAL's mission statement. At first I thought you were quoting someone, but I was not sure. Then, I read UAPPEAL's mission statement and wanted to find out if your post was in reference to something the organization is thinking about promoting OR simply your opinion. I don't want to discuss anything about UAPPEAL, i just want to know where the post came from. Thanks

Oh Sorry...no, it came from a newslink. Here is the link...sorry about the misunderstanding.

http://www.pennlive.com/editorials/patriotnews/index.ssf?/base/opinion/1136629239152140.xml&coll=1

>>I was replying to your original post after reading UAPPEAL's mission statement. At first I thought you were quoting someone, but I was not sure. Then, I read UAPPEAL's mission statement and wanted to find out if your post was in reference to something the organization is thinking about promoting OR simply your opinion. I don't want to discuss anything about UAPPEAL, i just want to know where the post came from. Thanks
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U.A.P.P.E.A.L.
Uniting A Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League
www.uappeal.org

.

>>.
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U.A.P.P.E.A.L.
Uniting A Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League
www.uappeal.org

This has been said before. You know this sort of publicity will end up with the banning of exotics but ultimately it's the dealers out to make a buck and the show organizers that allow it, selling to minors, etc.

I honestly don't think that venomous should be made available at public shows. I know it's a great way to see different species and perhaps purchase one especially for the responsible hot keeper but what is going to prevent that 16 year old kid from taking home a Gabby? This is hurting us all and I think there needs to be some pressure put on these show organizers not to allow venomous sales.

I know some will say that we shouldn't have to lose our rights to have venomous shows but it's kinda getting to be a give and take right now in order to keep venomous, right?

This conversation might have been brought up before but I would be interested to hear what some of you folks have to say. I am writing from California so it doesn't make a difference to me but if I eventually wanted to move and keep other exotic hots it will.

Take care-

Brett

"Most of the 8,000 venomous snake bites that occur annually in the United States..."

I find that amount hard to believe...wonder where the figure came from. Leaving out Hawaii and Alaska, that's 166 per year per state...
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1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.1 Woma (Juvie female)
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.0 Angolan Juvie
1.1 Savu
1.1 Juvie Bloods
1.1 Juvie Balls
1.1 IJ Carpets
1.1 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
1.0 Jungle Carpet
2.2 Scrubs (on breeding loan)
0.1 Jungle/Diamond cross
0.1 child, CB
0.1 wife, WC

BTW...I emailed the newspaper in PA. It's a rather sensationalist editorial.....and just an editorial. Obviously the writer has never been to a show.
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1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.1 Woma (Juvie female)
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.0 Angolan Juvie
1.1 Savu
1.1 Juvie Bloods
1.1 Juvie Balls
1.1 IJ Carpets
1.1 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
1.0 Jungle Carpet
2.2 Scrubs (on breeding loan)
0.1 Jungle/Diamond cross
0.1 child, CB
0.1 wife, WC

Having vended at a couple different hot shows now, I thought I might offer my opinion here. I don't believe we should disallow venomous at shows for the same reason I don't believe we should disallow the private keeping of them period. These shows are great ways for serious keepers to get a good look at something BEFORE they buy it, without having to drive across the country or risk 'mail ordering' something they've only seen a picture of. They're are also a great way of just getting to see some animals that you won't find at zoos.

Instead of stopping them from allowing venomous, what needs to be done are better measures of security put in place. What would be wrong with only allowing one person out of the building at a time and checking whatever animal containers he/she is carrying? That could both cut down on minors walking out with gaboons and stop the stealing that so often occurs at shows. This is just one rather simple (albeit tedious) way of making venomous-carrying shows safer without having to stop them completely. I think with all the bans we as a community are facing all over the country, we should look to solutions like these rather than just shutting things down.

Anyone else have any more thoughts?
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Chance Duncan
www.rivervalleyexotics.com

I kind of agree but what measures have been taken? Who is going to take responsibilty? The organizers? Certainly not the vendors. There are too many shows being held in order to "police" them all. I hate taking our rights away to have these shows, etc and it will definitely not stop some kid from obtaining that Gabby he has wanted since birth but it might help.

As far as mail ordering. Shouldn't we all be dealing with reputable dealers anyway? Digital cameras have don the trick for me as far as deciding whether or not the animal looks good or not. I haven't been to a single venomous show but I am imagining that most of them are the same in offering the same species show after show, occasionally you will see something different. If they are anything like non-venomous shows than I am led to believe this.

I don't know.....it seems like a big mess and seeing some posts that are negative but probably true in regards to hot keeping being a thing of the past makes me angry. I eventually will not be able to keep what I want responsibly because some twit sold some other twit a Mamba that got loose......and killed the neighbor down the street.

Unfortunately that situation is only waiting to happen. Yes, I can sit here and preach about personal responsibility all I want but it won't make a damn bit of good to those many folks who don't care. That's why I brought up the policing aspect at the shows. Unless we start being proactive about these things, you're right, our keeping days are very much numbered.

I don't think it would too much to ask for that all the show promoters who allow venomous...afterall, there is only 1 in TX and 1 in MO that are both controlled by the same people, 2 in PA that I'm not sure if they're controlled by the same people or not, 1 or 2 in SC, and 1 in FL. That's really not too many shows to keep up with. Why couldn't these few show promoters, who undoubtedly already know each other well, get together and formulate an across-the-board system of how to police their events. We as a community could further help this by supporting only those promoters who 'follow the rules,' so to speak. That seems very do-able to me, but maybe I'm mistaken.
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Chance Duncan
www.rivervalleyexotics.com

If I were in PA, I would be trying to put together a permit system in place. The state of Louisiana did, and their new regulations basically mimic Florida's. The choice is simple folks, either try to get the proper regulations in place or have the API or some other wacko Animal Rights group pass a ban for you.