Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Around the first of Sept 2005 I put an ad up for 4 adult female ball pythons on kingsnake. As you can imagine there was a lot of interest and they sold quickly.

A little background on the snakes. I have owned them all since they hatched, either hatched by me or purchased at a show or two. One produced for me last year and the others were in the 1000 gram range and not ready to be bred in the 2004 season. Before posting these snakes I sexed them again, and had Ian G. sex them for me.

Fast forward to Jan 6th.

I get an email from the buyer saying this:

"hello I have a question regarding the 4 females that I bought from you about 2 months ago...Please email me back so I can throw a question at you thanks"

I reply sure let me know what is up.

His reply

"When I received the 4 pythons I was excited about their size and looks and health...I appreciate that so much, but I've been breeding them lately since the season started and I have come to find that when I put two of your females with my high end male, one of your females was the one that was doing the breeding. I was shocked, I haven't even sexed the other 2 yet, but from what I have seen I know that one is a male and I was promised 4 females... Before I sex the other 2 I would like your honest response of the sexes of the other 2 and why I have a male instead of a female...After your response we will figure out how to deal with this matter, thank you for your cooperation and honesty, I'd appreciate it.. "

Now personally I have had males try to breed males and females try to breed females, just because they were "breeding" doesn't usually determine the sex. I told the buyer this as well as expressed my concern that he didn't sex the animals before they arrived. As I sex every animal I buy or sell before they enter or leave my house.

I ask him to sex them and see what he finds out. He tells me:

"I am going to take them to my local pet store, I know the guy personally and he's been doing snakes for 20 years at least...so I will let you know tomorrow, thanks for your help and cooperation "

So today it turns out he did have the animals sexed and responded to me with this message:

"hey I was just going to let you know that one of the snakes was infact male...personally I am quite upset about this and would like to know what you want to do about it...if you need me to have the vet sign something of verification then let me know and I'll scan it to you...you owe me a snake let me know what ideas you have about getting this all straight."

My question is what would be the correct thing to do. If we would have had this problem with the snakes were delivered I'd have no problem refunding his money or doing whatever it takes to make it right, however we are going on 5 months and now he is saying they are not females. I can't even remember what the snakes looked like so how I can be sure the ones he is talking about are even mine? I know the snakes I sold him were 4 females, and I can't control the fact that he didn't sex them when they arrived and I still had pictures on the web of them.

I am a small breeder and want to make this right, but just can't afford to send him $400 back for the snake. I thought about seeing what his "high-end" male was and seeing if I had some het babies that would help him out. I don't want to get a bad name for myself so I am asking here what you guys think.

Any advice, suggestions, or flames (not really haha) would be great.

Thanks!

Paul Farmer

-----
Paul Farmer
F and B Reptiles
pj_farmer@hotmail.com

Hi Paul,

Well I am not a breeder or seller, but I do purchase animals from various sources pretty regularly. My thought is, he should have sexed the animals before when he first recieved them. It's like going through the McDonalds drive through leaving and realizing your fries are not in the bag, then calling them a month later and telling them that they didn't give you what you payed for and you would like a refund. I suppose that if you REALLY want to be more customer "service" oriented, then perhaps you could find a way to mark the snakes (PIT tags?) by a qualified vet or other method, then making sure you write down the number and provide that number to the purchaser as well. Then if you have any returns or complaints, then you can have them send the snake back for you to verify that it is YOUR snake, then you can choose to make it right to the customer or refuse to help them because the snake isn't yours, whichever way it turns out. As for right now, I would say he's out of luck, he should have checked the bag before leaving the drive-through.

Just my opinion,

Chris

>>Around the first of Sept 2005 I put an ad up for 4 adult female ball pythons on kingsnake. As you can imagine there was a lot of interest and they sold quickly.
>>
>>A little background on the snakes. I have owned them all since they hatched, either hatched by me or purchased at a show or two. One produced for me last year and the others were in the 1000 gram range and not ready to be bred in the 2004 season. Before posting these snakes I sexed them again, and had Ian G. sex them for me.
>>
>>Fast forward to Jan 6th.
>>
>>I get an email from the buyer saying this:
>>
>>"hello I have a question regarding the 4 females that I bought from you about 2 months ago...Please email me back so I can throw a question at you thanks"
>>
>>I reply sure let me know what is up.
>>
>>His reply
>>
>>"When I received the 4 pythons I was excited about their size and looks and health...I appreciate that so much, but I've been breeding them lately since the season started and I have come to find that when I put two of your females with my high end male, one of your females was the one that was doing the breeding. I was shocked, I haven't even sexed the other 2 yet, but from what I have seen I know that one is a male and I was promised 4 females... Before I sex the other 2 I would like your honest response of the sexes of the other 2 and why I have a male instead of a female...After your response we will figure out how to deal with this matter, thank you for your cooperation and honesty, I'd appreciate it.. "
>>
>>Now personally I have had males try to breed males and females try to breed females, just because they were "breeding" doesn't usually determine the sex. I told the buyer this as well as expressed my concern that he didn't sex the animals before they arrived. As I sex every animal I buy or sell before they enter or leave my house.
>>
>>I ask him to sex them and see what he finds out. He tells me:
>>
>>"I am going to take them to my local pet store, I know the guy personally and he's been doing snakes for 20 years at least...so I will let you know tomorrow, thanks for your help and cooperation "
>>
>>So today it turns out he did have the animals sexed and responded to me with this message:
>>
>>"hey I was just going to let you know that one of the snakes was infact male...personally I am quite upset about this and would like to know what you want to do about it...if you need me to have the vet sign something of verification then let me know and I'll scan it to you...you owe me a snake let me know what ideas you have about getting this all straight."
>>
>>My question is what would be the correct thing to do. If we would have had this problem with the snakes were delivered I'd have no problem refunding his money or doing whatever it takes to make it right, however we are going on 5 months and now he is saying they are not females. I can't even remember what the snakes looked like so how I can be sure the ones he is talking about are even mine? I know the snakes I sold him were 4 females, and I can't control the fact that he didn't sex them when they arrived and I still had pictures on the web of them.
>>
>>I am a small breeder and want to make this right, but just can't afford to send him $400 back for the snake. I thought about seeing what his "high-end" male was and seeing if I had some het babies that would help him out. I don't want to get a bad name for myself so I am asking here what you guys think.
>>
>>Any advice, suggestions, or flames (not really haha) would be great.
>>
>>Thanks!
>>
>>Paul Farmer
>>
>>-----
>>Paul Farmer
>>F and B Reptiles
>>pj_farmer@hotmail.com
-----
U.A.P.P.E.A.L.
Uniting A Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League
www.uappeal.org

You probably owe the same as if the snake had died after 4 months (which is not much).
That being said, and to maintain good will, could a deep discount on another female be offered? This has the sound of an unfortunate but honest error on someone's part. I am sure in the future you will recommend immediate sexing and I am sure in the future the customer will adopt this practice. This is probably more of a moral issue than a legal one anyway so do whatever let's you look at yourself in the mirror each morning. Good luck.