Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Don,

Hope all is well. I noticed that the tricolor hondos look like they have very well defined lines. Almost like a pueblan. I did some research but I don't think pueblans naturally integrade with hondos in the wild. Do you think somewhere in the last 10 years folks started hybridizing the two to get the very clean defined lines that we are now seeing in the tricolors? If you look at wild caught specimins the tricolors just don't look that clean. I know everyone's first response is to say that we are seeing the best of the best from selective breeding over the last 2 decades.

Just wanted to get your thoughts. I am sure Shannon could chime in on this one as well.

Hope you and Sally had a great Holiday Season...

Steven Owens

STEVE WE ARE FINE AND HAD A GREAT HOLIDAY SEASON. I HOPE THE SAME FOR YOU. I DON'T KNOW IF ANYONE HAS HYBRIDIZED THE PUEBLAN AND HONDURAN BUT I KNOW THE ONES I GOT ARE PURE. ONE OF THE PARENTS CAME FROM TERRY DUNHAM AND THE OTHER FROM PETER RICE AND THESE 2 GUYS DON'T DO HYBRIDS. I'M JUST SURE WITH ALL THE HONDURAN SELECTIVE BREEDING THAT YOU WILL GET BETTER AND BETTER MORPHS OF HONDURANS.

Hey Steve, I was just wondering if you have read The General Care and Maintenance of Milk Snakes by Robert Applegate? It was published in 92' and in it you will see an incredibly clean Tangerine Honduran photo taken by Bill Love. It doesn't say it is Hypo but I would bet it is one of the original Hypos. There's no way people would try to "clean up" hondos with puablens.
Hope this helps!!
Dave

P.S. The pic I'm talking about is on page 56 of Applegates book. Check it out.

I have that particular care and maint guide. I bought it with the C & M set that came out in the early 90s. In the last 5 years I have seen really clean Tricolor hondos. Before then you just didn't see a clean one. The wild caughts were beyond ugly. That is why I pondered the question if someone had mixed them with pueblans or perhaps another Central American milk to clean up the bands and colors.

Thanks for your responses,

Steven Owens

I really think that it is from the selective breeding that has been done over the years. It's pretty much like that in most animals like the ball pythons. I don't know of too many other Central American milksnakes that are as nice as a lot of the hondurans.

Dave,

The Loves didn't produce their first two hypo Hondurans until 1993. They had beautiful non-hypo tangerines prior to that, though--pretty enough that they earned the name "Tangerine Dream" Hondurans. One of those is almost certainly what's in the picture in Bob's book.

The hypos appeared from that "Dream" line: it turned out the original male, found in a pet store in Miami and believed to be a wild-caught specimen, was het for the hypo trait, though it took years before he was eventually bred back to one of his daughters, producing the hypos in '93 and revealing his genotype.

Terry

>>Hey Steve, I was just wondering if you have read The General Care and Maintenance of Milk Snakes by Robert Applegate? It was published in 92' and in it you will see an incredibly clean Tangerine Honduran photo taken by Bill Love. It doesn't say it is Hypo but I would bet it is one of the original Hypos. There's no way people would try to "clean up" hondos with puablens.
>>Hope this helps!!
>>Dave
>>
>>P.S. The pic I'm talking about is on page 56 of Applegates book. Check it out.

Steve, here is a pic of a normal double het ghost honduran that I think is pretty clean for an adult and I'm sure it is a pure one.